suspended license

[jmb62]

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated here! I have been an RN for 15 years in every realm of nursing,but my license has been recently suspended indefinitely due to an honest narcotics mistake in a long term health care facility last January(2004).In the meantime,I have been unable to obtain a nursing position and know that I have done enough time in inpatient settings,so chose to take another route and pursue forensic nursing.Because my license is suspended and the state holds that the MSO4 count was off when I was in charge(the only RN in a 62 bed facility,supervising LNA's,suctioning,etc with no backup),what are my perspectives for future employment as a forensic nurse? I am currently enrolled on the Kaplan college certification course and am wondering if it's a waste of time-I'm 2/3 done! Anybody with any similar circumstances,insight,advice,orexperience,please reply. JMB62

[ladybyrd]

Similar thing happened to acquaintance who was a fairly new nurse. The narcotic count was off, and due to his inconsistant documentation (due to understaffing and overwork) there was no way to *prove* he either did or did'nt do "the drug-misdeed".

He was told by board of nursing that if he pleaded "guilty" he could go to drug rehab, and if he followed all their rules for rehab and aftercare and follow all the restrictions on his license, he would be treated as a "recovering addict" and could maintain his license and continue to work.

However, if he continued to deny that he did the deed, and pleaded "not guilty", he would loose his license permanently and could be prosecuted, even though his "only crime" was shoddy charting practices NOT misappropriating narcotics.

He said he would NEVER plead "guilty" for something he didnt do, and if it meant he couldnt practice nursing, it was THEIR loss, not his. He now working in the construction field.

Follow up: several months later, the REAL culprit (a co-worker) was apprehended and admitted that they had "done the deed" and taken the drugs, and further that to cover their tracks, they had let this unfortunate man "take the fall" rather than fess up and admit that the man was an excellent nurse and was only guilty of "not charting as well as he should".

[ZZTopRN, BSN, RN]

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Similar thing happened to acquaintance who was a fairly new nurse. The narcotic count was off, and due to his inconsistant documentation (due to understaffing and overwork) there was no way to *prove* he either did or did'nt do "the drug-misdeed".

He was told by board of nursing that if he pleaded "guilty" he could go to drug rehab, and if he followed all their rules for rehab and aftercare and follow all the restrictions on his license, he would be treated as a "recovering addict" and could maintain his license and continue to work.

However, if he continued to deny that he did the deed, and pleaded "not guilty", he would loose his license permanently and could be prosecuted, even though his "only crime" was shoddy charting practices NOT misappropriating narcotics.

He said he would NEVER plead "guilty" for something he didnt do, and if it meant he couldnt practice nursing, it was THEIR loss, not his. He now working in the construction field.

Follow up: several months later, the REAL culprit (a co-worker) was apprehended and admitted that they had "done the deed" and taken the drugs, and further that to cover their tracks, they had let this unfortunate man "take the fall" rather than fess up and admit that the man was an excellent nurse and was only guilty of "not charting as well as he should".

This is something like happened to me in 1992. I was working as an RN (6 days) in a LTC. On the 6th evening of my employment, the DON and a police officer came in. omeone had put drugs in my purse. A CNA reported that I was stealing drugs. So I was arrested and the charges were dropped. I was told by my lawyer that it was because the drugs, "3 Darvon, l Lioresel, and 1 HALDOL" had been lost. Everybody kept their purses in the med room, but that night curiously enough, my purse was the only one in the med room? Wouldn't you rather had a benzodiazipine than a HALDOL?

All reports were inconsistent, however, no one saw anything, just that my behavior was "suspicious." The DON searched my purse beforehand. No one would sign the arrest report. I applied for and got unemployment insurance, no one showed up to testify against me.

When I sent the money to renew my license, I got a letter to go to an evidentiary hearing. They also told me to "plead guilty and take an ethics course." I refused to plead guilty and to take an ethics course. To me that would be admitting guilt.

After that "little more bit of injustice" I was so upset I left nursing for good.

I am in another state now working as a volunteer in a hospital. They wanted me to renew my license and go to work for them. I told them what had happened. I did, and lo-and-behold, I found out that my license was suspended. It took several months to get any information from them. When I did get anything, it was a CONSENT order saying that I had admitted my guilt, etc. Something that I had NEVER SIGNED!

The interesting thing is that I could not get them to answer any questions about where the address they sent the charges to, I was not even around. They would answer no questions. They finally referred me to the Assistant Attorney General so I wrote her.

The response was over and over "you signed the consent." As to the question I asked where they sent their certified letter to, the only address they had for me was the one for the evidentiary hearing in 1992.

And get this, she said "Even if that were not so, you still signed the CONSENT." I find this a very stupid statement. In other words, charges without having to prove anything.

I have sent her another letter asking exact dates, addresses, copy of their wrongly addressed and dated copy of the certified letter, copies of the license that I didn't turn over to my attorney. In other words, A full page number by number of questions that I wanted answered to prove their charges.

I now have all documents in the BON in the state I am in now. I think that the only thing that they are questioning is the phony CONSENT that I supposedly signed.

Is it true that the BON is above the law of the land and does not have to prove anything or be responsible for the illegal harm they do?

Any comments?

Thank you.

[BeckRN]

I think a lot of this story is missing, and I don't blame you for not posting such sensitive information on a bb. In fact, I think its wise.

All I'll say is that I hope you fought the charge, and that you can save your license (after all, you did say suspended and not revoked... is it suspended for a finite time period? when can you expect it back?).

Otherwise, I'd hate to say that any education is a waste of time, but you can't be a forensic nurse if you're not a nurse. You can seek other employment in that field, if that's what you'd like.

Good luck to you.

[jmb62]

wow your situation really sucks,too.My state (vermont),too wanted to arrest me.They tried to push me into saying i took the morphine for my own personal use when i indeed did not.i made it clear that yes,i had made a serious mistake,and would not admit guilt to anything other than that fact. so after lots of money spent on attorney fees and so on,and givem that i was backed into a corner and had to choose between the lesser of the consequences,i ended up settling with the state,so that the case is basically over.my license is now suspended indefinitely and i can't get it reinstated until i take basic nursing documentation and some danger of drugs awareness and a few other classes approved by the state at my expense,then after that,the license would be stictly conditioned for several years before i could practice in the capacity that I was trained and experienced in.Recently,I got some correspondence from a federal bureau of the US which pretty much said that i may not be eligible to work in any state in any institution that accepts federal monies for any type of health care provisuion.It doesn't hurt my feelings to get out of nursing,as there are too many strikes against me and i am somewhat burned out anyway,on the politics and the way we are treated..At least i can say that i was a good nurse and made a difference in a lot of my patients lives,but now must move on to something else.oh well-----------best of luck to you!

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This is something like happened to me in 1992. I was working as an RN (6 days) in a LTC. On the 6th evening of my employment, the DON and a police officer came in. omeone had put drugs in my purse. A CNA reported that I was stealing drugs. So I was arrested and the charges were dropped. I was told by my lawyer that it was because the drugs, "3 Darvon, l Lioresel, and 1 HALDOL" had been lost. Everybody kept their purses in the med room, but that night curiously enough, my purse was the only one in the med room? Wouldn't you rather had a benzodiazipine than a HALDOL?

All reports were inconsistent, however, no one saw anything, just that my behavior was "suspicious." The DON searched my purse beforehand. No one would sign the arrest report. I applied for and got unemployment insurance, no one showed up to testify against me.

When I sent the money to renew my license, I got a letter to go to an evidentiary hearing. They also told me to "plead guilty and take an ethics course." I refused to plead guilty and to take an ethics course. To me that would be admitting guilt.

After that "little more bit of injustice" I was so upset I left nursing for good.

I am in another state now working as a volunteer in a hospital. They wanted me to renew my license and go to work for them. I told them what had happened. I did, and lo-and-behold, I found out that my license was suspended. It took several months to get any information from them. When I did get anything, it was a CONSENT order saying that I had admitted my guilt, etc. Something that I had NEVER SIGNED!

The interesting thing is that I could not get them to answer any questions about where the address they sent the charges to, I was not even around. They would answer no questions. They finally referred me to the Assistant Attorney General so I wrote her.

The response was over and over "you signed the consent." As to the question I asked where they sent their certified letter to, the only address they had for me was the one for the evidentiary hearing in 1992.

And get this, she said "Even if that were not so, you still signed the CONSENT." I find this a very stupid statement. In other words, charges without having to prove anything.

I have sent her another letter asking exact dates, addresses, copy of their wrongly addressed and dated copy of the certified letter, copies of the license that I didn't turn over to my attorney. In other words, A full page number by number of questions that I wanted answered to prove their charges.

I now have all documents in the BON in the state I am in now. I think that the only thing that they are questioning is the phony CONSENT that I supposedly signed.

Is it true that the BON is above the law of the land and does not have to prove anything or be responsible for the illegal harm they do?

Any comments?

Thank you.

[Todd SPN]

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Is it true that the BON is above the law of the land and does not have to prove anything or be responsible for the illegal harm they do?

Any comments?

Thank you.

IMHO, administrative law is bias and unfair. They are able to make their own rules without having to worry about the Constitution of the US. Many agencies don't even give you a copy of the law(s) they are prosecuting you by. Example: In my state if you call up the Unemployment Dept and talk with an adjuster about a letter they sent questioning your eligiblity it can be construed as a hearing. They can rule and send you their determination without you even knowing you were in a hearing. You can spend thousands of dollars and untold amounts of time defending yourself from the allegations of these agencies. A nurse I know who was guilty of the drug charge brought against him spent 10k in attorney fees. He then failed to go to the programs agreed too and his license was suspended for 5 years.

[debRN0417]

In my position, if the narc count is off it is reported to me. It is up to me to find the error or take action. It scares the hell out of me and this is one reason that I prefer to not work in a management position any longer. (one of many reasons) Although I am not the one giving the meds or making the error, it still frightens me that I am resposnible for the nurses and some of then act like it's no big deal. I tell them when they stand before the BON they'll think "big deal". I have to drug destruction and I am very frightened to have to deal with all that. Some poeple don't realize that one mistake can ruin you forever.

[Homecare Worker]

:chair: These horror stories touch a cord with me, although my problem seems to be something rather opposite.

My patient and her daughter recently traveled out-of-state. The daughter asserted her intent to control all aspects of her mother's care throughout the journey. For prudence sake, I required the daughter to sign for the narcotic portion of her mother's prescription medications. I checked the narc's in upon their return. The daughter was offended by this process, apparently failing to appreciate the grave consequences potentially facing me, should any doses disappear from the supply; or perhaps reluctant to accept responsibility for the power of control.

:paw: This incident is now part of a complaint filed against me, with the State of Oregon, by the patient's daughter. According to the complaint I "withheld prescription medications" and "forced" the daughter to sign for them; while, in truth, it was only about the Percocet, and nothing else. I'm afraid the representative for the State in this case sees this as something other than evidence of my professionalism. But this case will not presently be heard before the BON; and I fear that my judge may not be well informed regarding standards and practices of the industry. I am charged with administrative improprieties. Sounds rather bland huh? But they've pulled my number. Won't pay me anymore. I expect my appeal will be successful, eventually. Meanwhile, it is difficult to mount a defense without money.

You see: I'm an UNregistered nurse and whatever skilled tasks I perform are assigned or delegated by my patient's PCP, or my RN friends associated with the case. I am, however, a dozen years in practice; with a bachelor's in Biology/Pre-med, and an additional year studying physical rehab at University. I do not serve those who don't want my service, and this is the first time a patient's family has filed a complaint. No one has died; no pills are missing; and the patient says of her daughter, "she a control freak." State officials frequently bemoan the lack of good homecare workers in this state but the system does little to protect workers from the temper tantrums of adult children who take out their anger and frustration on the very people who are trying to help.

Damned if you do/Damned if you don't.

[suzanne4, RN]

You are not an "unregistered nurse" -- and I hope that you are not calling yourself one. You never attended nursing school. And have not taken the NCLEX exam.

Most people will not hear the "un" in front of the title, and that is not appropriate to be used, especially here on a nursing board.

[PANurseRN1]

Boy oh boy, if the BON ever caught wind that you were calling yourself an "unregistered nurse," you would be in for a world of hurt. You think you have trouble now?

[PANurseRN1]

FWIW, you had no business demanding that the daughter keep a log of the medication. Once the pt. went out of state, she was not under your care; her care was the responsibility of the daughter.

You can have degrees in dozens of areas, but you simply cannot attach "nurse" to your title or in any way represent yourself as a sort of nurse if you are not one legitimately.

What you did was unethical, both in misrepresenting yourself and what you did to the pt. daughter. I think you're naive to think you'll come out of this one a winner. You may be an excellent healthcare worker, but you are not a nurse and shouldn't be trying to blur the lines.

[Homecare Worker]

You are not an "unregistered nurse" -- and I hope that you are not calling yourself one. You never attended nursing school. And have not taken the NCLEX exam.

Please lighten up. I had hoped I might find myself among friends here as I always do among real nurses.

Most people will not hear the "un" in front of the title, ...

With all due respect: The title is Nurse; and most people don't hear what comes before or after that.

"UNregistered nurse" ... is not appropriate to be used, especially here on a nursing board.

I believe this is one of the few places where such silliness ought to be tolerated; and I see things here which might be humorous were they not horrifying.

I see toleration of a low standard of literacy among nurses (yourself excepted, of course). I guarantee this problem threatens patients' lives.

I see nurses who can't utter the word member, as if "thing," "member," and "you know what," are preferable to the language of health science.

Tolerant are you of such things? Tolerant should you be?

I think we should see none of it, especially on a nursing board.

[BRANDY LPN]

I too was wrongfully accused of "professional misconduct" by my BON. All I received was a letter of reprimand, which doesn't SEEM that bad, however it will remain on your record FOREVER and will cause your license to be "flagged" every time you apply for a job or to go back to school, so I went to the hearing which was a complete joke and a waste of time. Someone stated the purden of proof is on them, not from where I was standing, the burden will be on YOU to prove your innocence.

I was accused by my ex during a custody suit, one of MANY harrassment ploys he used.

I am happy to report that he has since had HIS professional license suspended for 5 yrs on a completely different matter and his star witness has also had her professional license REVOKED. Karma......aint it great?

I will no longer practice nursing, and like someone else said it is only a loss to the pts I could have cared for, I am happy to be doing other things with less stress and more respect. Not to mention the fact that it would be VERY hard for him to attack me using my career again.

Good luck to you with dealing with this, it took me alot of soul searching before I was okay with my decision if you ever want to talk or just vent feel free to PM me.

Brandy