suspended license

PANurseRN1 · May 14, 2006

The pt. was a home care pt. He had no authority to demand the daughter sign for the meds, particularly since, as a free-lance HHC worker, he was not acting under the P&P of an agency.

Editorial Team / Admin · May 14, 2006

not exactly the board of nursing but thanks for the link anyway.
here is the part i think relevant to our discussion:
(8) ... "practice of nursing" includes executing medical orders as prescribed by a physician or dentist but does not include such execution by a member of the immediate family for another member or execution by a person designated by or on behalf of a person requiring care as provided by board rule where the person executing the care is not licensed under ors 678.010 to 678.410.
by this definition one might do exactly what the "nurse" would do under the same circumstance, but cannot, in the legal sense, consider it to be a "practice of nursing."
also, surely, you realize there is more than one definition of nurse.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/nurse
etymology:
middle english norice, nurse, wet nurse, from old french norrice, from vulgar latin *nutr
cia, from late latin ntrcia, from feminine of latin ntrcius, that suckles, from ntrx , ntrc-, wet nurse; see (s)nu- in indo-european roots
calling oneself a nurse is not a crime unless one does so in order to fool the public: i.e. for the purpose of engaging in a "practice of nursing," as defined by law.
penalties
678.990 penalties. (1) violation of any provision of ors 678.010 to 678.410 is a class c misdemeanor.
doesn't seem strong enough does it?

yes, it is from the oregon state board of nursing. if you look again, you see it is oregon's nurse practice act. and, no, this excerpt is not relevant to the discussion.

i'm rather concerned that you are still contending that you are a nurse. you are not. also, it appears that you are possibly calling yourself a "designated caregiver" which, under oregon law, is legal. but, these caregivers are not paid. so, i suppose this isn't your title as well. http://www.osbn.state.or.us/osbn/pdfs/npa/div48.pdf

so, please clarify.......what is your title? we might be able to assist you a little more with that information.

Ms.RN · May 14, 2006

i'm just curious to find out

1) who reported you to the bon?

2) is it a state law that requires the facilities to report to bon if narcotic count is off?

3) was this mistake where you gave narcotic to patient but you forgot to sign it in the narcotic book?

this kind of things make me so mad!!! :angryfire :angryfire :angryfire if every nurses are reported to bon becuase their narcotic count is off, then how many nurse's license will be suspended? i work in long term care facilty, and if we find narcotic count is off, we try to find out why we are missing a narcotic and most likey its becuase a nurse gave it to the patient to forgot to sign it off in the narcotic book. and if thats the case, then we make space avaliable and let that nurse know that he/she need to sign the narcotic book. if nurses make med errors, giving wrong medications, wrong dose, wrong patients and put patients life on the line, its brushed off as "mistake" and let that nurse continue working as a nurse but if one narcotic is off becuase of honest mistake, that nurse's license have to be suspended? is this fair? :devil: :angryfire :trout: :banghead:

Homecare Worker · May 14, 2006

Aw, Ben. You crack me up.
So . . . whaddya think about going back to school? (Couldn't resist the slouchy English.)
I'm serious in making the suggestion.
I think you mentioned you had been in home health care for twelve years. What did you do before that? If you have previous schooling, that might give you a head start. You may also be able to test out of some courses.
I am now officially intrigued by the possibilities.

You may see from my profile that I was pretty serious, at one time, about a career in medicine. I was, simultaneously, pretty serious about a career in social work (church ministry). So, I imagined myself to be a medical missionary! It was all about the glory, you know. I bought a share in a small aircraft and learned to fly. Then I was going to be a flying medical missionary.

Anyhoo ... :uhoh3:

It took me nine years to nail down the baccalaureate whilst dabbling in various fields of study; changing my major as necessary to get the classes I wanted. Eclectic I am. I studied what I wanted to know. Agriculture, Electronics, Industrial Arts, Broadcasting, Physical Therapy, ... took what I wanted and changed my major again. Didn't really think about how it all might apply to actually doing a job for someone. Just didn't care to participate in the nonacademic reality outside the Ivy covered halls. Then, I ran out of money. No more grants or loans. Had to grab a degree in something, just so I could graduate. Biology was the easiest, just a few quarter hours away, mostly undergrad humanities I had ignored figuring they were useless in real life: literature, art, music, ...

... you know, girlie stuff. :lol2:

:chair: I really don't like the thought of going back to school.

And

I think I'd be dissatisfied as a practical nurse.

Or, an IMpractical nurse. Or a medical doctor.

No, I think I'd rather be a Tyrant. No wait. There's already someone in the oval office.

Oh well. Maybe later then. It's Sunday for Chris'sake. I should take a day off from all this heavy thinking. Give me a break? I'm really rather shy, you know? And an extremist. And indecisive. But I mean well. I think. :saint:

:typing

NrsJena · May 14, 2006

Ben- please indulge me here: I understand from your original post that you are an independant provider, caring for this client in her home. The daughter took the client on a "vacation" and you had her sign for the exact number of Percocet she is to give while on this trip. Am I understanding this correctly? At this point, I do not understand the basis for the lawsuit. What is the complaint? I am unfamiliar with IP regulations in regard to Medicare/Medicaid, but am assuming that your "number" was pulled due to the compliant. Can you dispute that?

In response to the offense of many here: a joke is only funny if both (or all) people laugh. Making light of what our profession takes very seriously is not funny, as you have found out. In Ohio, I have never heard of anyone refered to under such a title- and would be suspicious of anyone who tried. If in the course of your work, you define yourself as such to clients you care for, the OBN WILL take notice, and may potentially decide to take action.

Having said that: I do wish you the best of luck with your situation.

Homecare Worker · May 15, 2006

... i do not understand the basis for the lawsuit. what is the complaint? ...

to be accurate it is not characterized as a lawsuit but rather a "termination of provider number and enrollment" (pending appeal). or, "termination pending appeal." in the course of the appeal process i was subjected to a couple of "informal interviews;" encounters called "administrative review." these interviews yielded nothing in the way of relief for me. i appealed each decision, and finally requested a hearing before an administrative law judge. this was followed by another "informal interview" with the state's representative (opposing counsel: the equivalent of a da were this a civil suit). at this juncture i had the right to see what evidence the state was bringing against me. i requested of the state's representative that he get this to me in a timely fashion such that i might have adequate time to review his exhibits and formulate a response. he assured me that he would do so.

two weeks later, on the day i was supposed to hand the judge my response, i received the packet of evidence. i immediately called the office of administrative hearings and requested a postponement of the hearing date. i had no other option if i hoped to answer their "evidence." i got my extension but then, a few days later, i received a letter announcing that i would not be able to receive pay for serving state client's beginning on the first day of may. to this point the process had taken about four months: from mid december, 2005; to late april, 2006.

when i examined the state's evidence, i immediately realized that it wasn't as bad as i had feared. i felt much better about the opportunity to redeem my good name.

the "complaint" as you so accurately characterize it, is a three pronged attack mounted by the patient's (state's client's) son-in-law, a california tax attorney who redefines legal ethics by representing his wife in an attack on his mother-in-law, whom he also purports to be representing. legally, the man's mother-in-law is party to his alleged conspiracy to commit welfare fraud. now who would believe that a tax attorney, of all people, would incriminate his mother-in-law, of all people. this observation may seem peripheral to the main thrust, but look who is thrusting.

the root of the matter is that the daughter wanted control of her mother's life to an extent which violated her mother's rights. as the primary caregiver, i advocated for my patient, defending the woman's right to lead her own life. thus, the attack was focused on myself. aside from the patient, i was the main obstacle in the way of the daughter's evil plot. she wanted me out of the way, in the worst way. the son-in-law, foolishly i think, opened himself to criticism in his eager and premeditated attempt to discredit my knowledge, skill, and quality of care. fortunately for the client, and myself, this lawyer and his wife have left a paper trail which may be helpful in documenting what i assert here.

yes, my number is now pulled (i think) on account of the complaint. there was a cursory "investigation" of the affair, results of which were inconclusive. so i was allowed to continue working and getting paid throughout the administrative review process. so, i guess i'm bad; just not very bad. besides. someone had to work the case in the meanwhile. and, of course, someone had to replace me when was forced out. whom, do you suppose, was saddled with the responsibility of finding, screening, and training that replacement. any guesses?

this doesn't mean i cannot practice my trade here. it means i can't be paid by the state to practice it in connection with these programs. that is an inconvenience. more to the point: it is a dishonor. that is why i am fighting it so hard. for my honor and for the dear lady whom i nursed back to life these 24 long months.

[color=gold][color=#000a0]{gee, i wonder if i left anything out.}

ZZTopRN, BSN, RN · May 15, 2006

Update from ZZTOP RN: After all the hassle with the BON that suspended my license I found out that I could appeal to the state I was now living in. It took 3 months of documents to my home state and having review my case reviewed for approval. Of course they had to call the state where my license was suspended. I was told by my own state BON that they were fiercly fighting it even though they had no proof and the charge that I stole a couple of darvocet and a Haldol, of all things, I got my license back in my home state. My license is still suspended in the other state since 1994. However, I have a good job in a great hospital. My background check was clean. So you never know. I just had this feeling, "never give up."

Good luck to you. Also there are some mighty good posts on this thread about not letting yourself be walked on. Since I have been through this, I now have a better sense of standing up for myself.

NrsJena · May 16, 2006

Ben- thank you for clarifying further. I must admit, I am still unclear as to what the complaint is, exactly. As an nurse, I would have also asked the daughter to sign out narcs-if only to cover my own backside, especially if I had reason to feel the need to do so. But- the nature of this board is to gather the opinions of situations. By giving an opinion, the poster always runs a risk of commenting without knowing the entire circumstances. In other words- nothing is ever so cut and dry and vague situations get generic responses. If there is reason for an Administrative review of this situation: there is just cause to think there is more to the "complaint" than just simply signing out narcs.

Whatever that reason is, I say again: good luck.

Anna Shepard · Apr 6, 2011

I am so happy for you. If I may ask, was the before or after the compact law.

I live in NC and I am going through h---.

I lost my license in 2009, for positive THC. I was going through a very bitter divorce at the time. I lost my license and everything I had worked the 16 years of my career for.

I cannot get a job, I have to declare bankruptcy and the state of NC BON is beyond strict.

I finally got the money together to get me through the year of random screens, which I started in Nov. 2010. I got sick in Mar. Took some Nyquill in the middle of the night, got called in the next morning for a random, tested positive for alcohol and I have to start the year screening all over. I want to leave the state of NC. I am from Virginia, my original license is in the state of Virginia. I feel that the punishment is to harsh and that they are monitoring my every move. I don't believe I have any hope of ever being reinstated in the state of NC, the attorney general also suspended any chance of applying for a federal loan, payment indirect or direct from medicare, medicaid, etc.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

gentlegiver, ASN, LPN, RN · Apr 6, 2011

You see: I'm an UNregistered nurse

No, I am an Un-Registered Nurse, a position known as an LPN. I studied Nursing, took the NCLEX, and every 2 years have to renew my licence. I must, by BON laws, keep up my training and provide proof of that education. It is wrong and illegal (in most states) to refer to yourself as a Nurse (Non-Registered or not) if you do not have a Licence, please stop refering to yourself as such!

[i think I'd be dissatisfied as a practical nurse.

Or, an IMpractical nurse. }

Please be kind enough to explain just what an IMpractical Nurse is ... I've never heard of one.

Now back to the thread:

I too had a run in with the BON, I was accused of abuse & neglect of my patient. They insisted I sign papers admitting my guilt. The charges were trumped up. I was not allowed to see the "evidence" supplied by my employer. The "investigation" was done by the same employer. I could not afford a lawyer,(I never bothered to get insurance, didn't think I'd need it..DUH!!) so I fought this on my own. It took me 1 1/2 years but was finally able to prove the charges were false. There is nothing against my licence, however, the paperwork they sent me state they can renew the charges if they ever get another complaint against me. The BON can do what they like, we have no real defense, and yes, you are guilty until proven innocent, and even then, you are still "somewhat" guilty.