Surgical Technologists Taking Over Nursing Roles?

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Mar 22, 2011

Wow! some of you are really out there!
Whats wrong with you people? Do you think we're that stupid? Im a tech and I know you didnt get any education in nursing school for the OR. Everything you know about your job you learned on the job and admit, it some of what you learned was from a surg tech. As far as your "nursing" duties in the OR I dont know why you need a license to ask a patient his name and then spend the next four to seven hours doing data imput on the computer. And do you really dont think we can handle that? Please! Besides most of you are ASN's In the next few years no one will be hiring those anymore. Counting supervision? are you kidding? There are places where one RN supervises up to four rooms of techs both circ and scrubbing. What your really afraid of is losing your jobs.

Sorry, you're flat out wrong. I was a surg tech before I became a nurse and can say circulating well is far more difficult than scrubbing. Surg techs don't run rooms- circulators do. I know some techs THINK they run the show but that is not the case. :rolleyes:

And I'm not afraid of losing my job- I'm a nurse that can scrub..that makes me very marketable. :DWe also are moving toward staffing more RNs than techs..easier to run a schedule that way.

Angry much?

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Mar 22, 2011

I am not an OR nurse, nor am I an ST, but my husband is a CST and he LOVES what he does. He went to school for three years for it- one year of pre reqs and then the actual program was 2 years long. He graduated with an associate's of science in surgical technology. Not all programs in surg tech training are equal. His program had the exact same pre req requirements as did the RN program at the school he went to, (A&P 1 and 2, pharm, micro, etc). He doesn't expect to be taking over any RN's any time soon, in fact he's quite content with little to no direct patient care. He works in the smaller hospital of the three in our town- I'm not quite sure how many OR's they've got though; I think it's around 10. He's worked hard to get where he currently is. He's now an invaluable part of both the heart and Davinci teams at his workplace, and the respect between the nurses and techs at that hospital is unbelievable. Currently he's working to receive his first assistant certification. It makes me really sad to see the bashing going in between people in this thread.

Actually, most of the time where I work we all get along pretty well. We all have a job to do. But, arrogance can go both ways. I've know some snotty RNs but I've also known some techs who have a huge chip on their shoulder and who try to run the show. Trust me, there are days where i wish i hadn't become a nurse, so I could just focus on the incision and the instruments and not have to juggle everything.

If there's lack of respect on this thread- it's coming from both groups. For example, there little comments about nurses contaminating themselves,or getting no exposure to the OR in NS. By the way, that's not true of all programs. And, for every surgical tech that went through a degree program there's two more that got pulled from another floor and trained to scrub in 8 weeks( several young techs at my hospital like this) or got OTJ training.

The original question got lost along the way... :lol2: you're not ever going to see STs taking over nursing roles, IMHO. Just woldn't be safe.

tiny1 · Mar 22, 2011

I think all of us do it because we love it. Like I have said, we are a team. Not one RN, LPN or ORT could do it by themselves. I think we are all qualified in the field or we would not be in these positions. I am just happy that I do what I do. I am greatful for the experience . Now , I speak from experience when I say this. I have learned from RN's, LPN's and ORT's in the past fifteen years. I learn everyday. I do not care about initials behind a name, if I see something done , I ask questions and learn , regardless of their position. I have worked with good RN's, LPN's , CNA's and ORT's and I have learned from them. I think we can all agree, regardless of your position, a seasoned nurse or ORT can teach us things that we did not get in our education. When I am in doubt or question something, I turn to my coworker who I feel is the most qualified to answer my question regardless of the initial behind the name.

Skwidward · Mar 24, 2011

I haven't been in on a debate for awhile, but any Tech who thinks they "might" just be signing my eval one day is really living in a dream world. When it comes down to who to lay off because staffing is an issue, it will be the Tech no matter how many years of experience they might have. Anyone with any management experience knows with contracts and state issues, only RNs have to be constantly present. You can run hospitals without a majority of people, pray this doesn't happen, but you CANNOT run the place without RNs. Anyone can pay a "tech" school for the education but that doesn't make them a necessity for an OR department. It still boils down to dollars, cheap labor! Nursing managers aren't always looking for the best for their department so when they are filling positions an ST is a nice option. The reason that most RNs don't look at the OR as an option is because there are so many other nursing areas to choose from. An ST "only" has one option and that is the OR. Simply one-sided and replaceable. No more IMHO!And, yes, I still have an "old" ego that longs for the days when techs were a nuisance and unnecessary. Hospitals simply do not want to train their "nre" RNs to scrub because of the cost. Why do that when you can call the local tech school and get one of their "fresh" off the assembly line models. Come on, this is an old issue that won't go away and even I have accepted it. I just want the techs out there to know that they won't be taking my job, or doing my eval or any of that silly stuff, or running departments or whatever. Remember we are all here to do a job for the patient and personality conflicts are a detriment to patient care. Can't we all just get along?

I do understand this has been a bit of a back and forth, but I really think you are being a little insulting. You do come across as having an "I'm better than you" attitude. Sure, it is hard for someone to have any concept of exactly all the responsibility you have and everything you are actually doing when all they see is you sat down charting and they have no experience of what it takes. I imagine this sometimes when I'm sat at my desk trying to write orders, call docs, chart etc. and a CNA goes rushing past with a handful of soiled linens. We all have our roles, and they should overlap sometimes...that is team work.

What seems to be happening where I'm at, as far as I can see from searching for OR nursing jobs, is that the preference is to hire a LVN/ST. I imagine you'd have the RN circulating and then your LVN/STs scrubbed in. Ideal, I mean the LVN can administer most medications (in my state anyway), insert foleys, assess the pt etc. and do all the technical stuff too, for cheap.

My thought though is who has an LVN and ST certification? I mean, I'm an LVN and have considered getting my ST to work in the OR. I figured an experienced LVN with a ST certification would be pretty valuable, as most LVNs would go back to school for the RN rather than ST (it's about the same amount of school). The only other option is the ST who went to LVN school, but then this individual while being an experienced ST and having the LVN certification will not have the nursing experience, skills etc. ...but then why would they go back to school if they are already working as an ST? I guess it would be a little more pay...

and/or a pathway to his RN.

Either way, I heard a Doctor say once that the profession that does more for public health than his own was the garbage man.

joed88 · Jun 25, 2011

Hi! I´m studying to become a RN in Sweden and it seems very intresting how the role of an or-nurse in the U.S is completely reversed from a swedish or-nurse. Here the scrub duties must be performed by an RN and the circulator is performed by non-registred personel. Although it should be said that we are experiencing a great shortage of or-nurses. I´m a little curious about what U.S nurses think about the scrub role, and do you have nurses that mainly work with scrub duties?

Scrubby · Jun 25, 2011

Hi! I´m studying to become a RN in Sweden and it seems very intresting how the role of an or-nurse in the U.S is completely reversed from a swedish or-nurse. Here the scrub duties must be performed by an RN and the circulator is performed by non-registred personel. Although it should be said that we are experiencing a great shortage of or-nurses. I´m a little curious about what U.S nurses think about the scrub role, and do you have nurses that mainly work with scrub duties?

I'm not from the US but we have some similarities in my workplace. The RN's in my hospital scrub for major cases while the EN's (LPN) are mainly circulators.

lockheart678 · Jun 26, 2011

Where I work, we are really short on RNs and have more STs in the OR than RNs. Due to the shortage, when we have new RNs training, they don't get any kind of scrubbing experience. I only got a couple of weeks when I was new, and in that short period of time I learned enough to where I could have scrubbed a lap chole or a small hernia almost independently, but I was never able to build on those skills and I lost most of what I learned. It really did help me to become a better circulator. I only wish I could have learned enough to scrub independently and been able to use the skills enough to retain them.

Since I have only worked in a hospital that utilizes STs, I couldn't imagine not having them, and I definitely don't feel threatened that they could ever take my job away from me. We are all part of a team and we each have our own duties. What bugs me though is when some people take that too literally. I've known of some RNs who refuse to help open the room or call for the room to be turned over because that is the ST's job. On the flip side, I always get stuck with the STs who do only the minimum to get by and won't help me out with anything. Just because I am the one who is responsible for the patient does not mean it should be beneath my ST to help me out by getting warm blankets, helping me get the stretcher out of the room, or assisting in transferring the patient. It is so nice when we can actually work together as a team and help each other out whenever we can.

RNOTODAY, BSN, RN · Jun 27, 2011

IMHO? There is nothing humble about your opinion. Obviously, the field of Surgical Technology is a positive influence because it has flourished and patients have benefited from their skills. If it provided inferior patient care it would not be so successful. It must really burn you up that a "lowly" Scrub Tech can replace you at the sterile field and likely surpass you for that matter. If I could I would challenge you to a Scrub Off. If I had it my way, Nurses entering the OR would have to take a Surgical Technology course before they could be considered for a position in the Operating Room. Atleast that way they would have to be held up to at least the same standard of surgical training as Scrub Techs whom are trained SPECIFICALLY to work in the Operating Room. The one nice thing about the debate from my end is that Nurses whom share your point of view will be extinct in the OR a decade from now and they will be replaced with RN's that are more concerned with the cohesiveness and effectiveness of the surgical team than their glory days and ego's. There are new Generations of Surgical Nurses evolving... Many who have had 5 or 10 years of experience as Surgical Technologists. Oh,,, Now I see whats got you so worked up. Someday some Scrub Tech you though was inadequate might be signing your annual evaluation.

a "scrub off"? are you serious? REDICUlOUS!!! calm down, you will stil have a job

for the next twenty years.

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gymnut · Jun 29, 2011

I can honestly say in all of my life I have never seen two different jobs that have so much animosity between them! It's like cats vs dogs and Yankees vs the Red Sox fans.:) I think this happens whenever there is someone that has a job that is similar to another person. I have already heard MDs bashing on PAs and NPs and even LPNs saying how CNAs and PCAs should be replaced by them because an RN/LPN staff would be much better for the patients and that they could do more than the techs.

I think it's good to have a variety of careers because not everyone wants to be a nurse or a doctor. I did want to become a nurse until I actually began working along side of them and saw all the BS and stress involved with it and decided that while I love the medical science behind the field I wouldn't be happy working the role. I am enrolled in a surgical tech program and have done extensive research (member of several forums, sought out people on FB and even talked to other techs/RN scrubs) and pretty much all of them absolutely love being a tech and wouldn't pursue any other career. Interestingly enough I have met a handful of nurses who thought scrubbing was boring and liked circulating and were thankful that techs took over that part.

I also think STs get a bum rap because there really isn't any set schooling for them. My program is run by my hospital and is M-F 8hrs/day for a year and we have the same exact pre-reqs as the nursing program. We also have to scrub in a bare minimum of 225 cases ranging from the simple to complex. We even learn about organ harvesting as well. Now a fellow co-worker of mine went to a ST program that was run by a fly by night tech school, not certified, taught by someone who was not a CST and he only had 40 cases at an ambulatory surgical center that mainly did eye surgeries. So I can see how RNs get frustrated because when we come on the job they have no idea what our educational background is. Are we going to know our stuff or are we going to stand there with a Hurr Durr look on our face when the fecal matter hits the fan? So I think regulating the schooling would ease some of the tension.

As others have mentioned it's all about the patient in the end. If I'm being cut open in surgery I want every single person in that room to put their egos aside and focus on me!!! I don't want the surgeon having a fit because he has a God complex and won't listen to the vital info the RN is telling him because 'she didn't go to med school like he did'. I don't want the RN baring cat claws because she thinks the anesthesiologist is lazy and just sits there reading magazines and, I don't want the ST to run the show because they think they're better than the RN.* I want everyone to work together and help get me out of there alive and infection free!

*All crap I've witnessed/heard while shadowing in the OR.

surL · Jan 19, 2012

You are right we just need to get along. Im a scrub tech. I dont wont to be a Nurse!! Never wont to be a Nurse or take over. I graduated from Louisiana but I work in Texas. Over in Texas a scrub tech must be certified to work. They must attend a accredit college. Texas is the first state require scrubs to be certified in the OR and now they are pushing for Licensed. Even though we are tech. We are slowly coming important. My starting pay was $19.00. Nurse starting pay in texas is$18-20.00. By bestfriend is a Nurse. We work at the same hosiptail. We started at the same time and been there almost 2 years!! The only different she make a $1.50 more than me!!! Many states are pushing for certification. I dont have to do evaluation or run any departments. Just my certification puts a smile on my face. The fact it is needed in some states!!! Eventually all states will require a tech to be Certified to work in the OR. Which cause a major increase in Salary. As long as my salary increasing I dont care what a Nurse do. Im dont wont their jobs, thier patients, are the extensive training. Just knowing that scrubs are not the 1st to get laid off and they are required in some states. Nurses can keep their jobs. Rn are #1 needed. But as time go by and these states keep passing these laws Scrubs will be needed in the OR. Let me Scrub!!!!:w00t: