Surgical Technologists Taking Over Nursing Roles?

jdg0719 · Mar 9, 2011

some will never get it!

jdg0719 · Mar 10, 2011

take this as a fact or take this as an insult, however you prefer. many jobs have been created to fill the need in different roles of healthcare. something a few "older" providers can't grasp, and most likely never will. some out there happen to be out of touch these days. healthcare is evolving if you haven't noticed. it's like hearing mds say that crnas and nps shouldn't practice independently or administer drugs, since they didn't go through medical school, intense years and hours of residency and fellowships. or hearing others say, "since it's cheaper to see an np, you're going to get cheap lousy care" your ego seems to get the worst of you. many military and smart techs that i have worked with have some of the best knowledge than a few nurses who scrub that can barely keep their hands above the waist line. techs are not nurses, they never claim to be. they are there to do a job. a job that they went to school for or an mos they learned in the service. some nurses out there will never understand that csts are also "patient advocates" as well. any nurses who were once techs remember, aeger primo ? a tech has their limitations and scope of practice just like a nurse has theirs. nurses should not see techs as a threat, just like an anesthesiologist should not see a crna as a threat to their job, or an obstetrician seeing cnm as one too. or even a family physician seeing a fnp as a "takeover". techs are educated to provide the best care for the patient, just like any other caregiver should. if you are having a hard time excepting this and it hurts your ego, then perhaps you should work in a different health setting that has all rns . and if a hospital really wants to cut costs all they have to do is go by getting rid of staff with decades of seniority, by offering a retirement incentive and hire new grads to take their place.

tiny1 · Mar 10, 2011

I am a LPN that works as a scrub nurse. In our hospital, we utilize LPN's to scrub cases. RN's circulate. I do think any RN who works in the OR needs to learn how to scrub a case. . We help the RN by preping the patient or inserting a catheter, whatever is needed to get the case started as quickly as possible.As healthcare reform continues, the trend to use scrub techs and LPNs in the OR will continue to grow.Our small hospital will not use RN's or surgery techs as scrubs. They prefer an LPN that can scrub , catheterize, give meds and provide post op care after the patient leaves the recovery room. I do agree that all RN's should have the ability to scrub because it makes a better circulator. We should start looking at the whole picture instead of the letters at the end of one's name. When it is all said and done, the surgeon standing next to you wants someone who anticipates his needs, he could care less what the initials are that follows your name. We are a team and we could not give our patients the care they need and deserve without the house keepers RNs, LPNs, STs, central sterilization and the surgeons. None of us should snub our noses because the hospitals are hiring someone with a different initial to do this job. It all comes down to the fact that each and every one of us are qualified to do it . It is the facilities choice to choose what is most cost effective and profitable for them. I work in a small hospital that considers surgery and post op as one department.They choose to utilize LPN's to scrub and if needed, we will go to the holding unit to provide post op care. This does not mean that they feel a ST could not do the job as well , they just want to keep labor costs down and utilize the skills that the LPN can provide in nursing as well.

ShannonRN2010, BSN, RN · Mar 12, 2011

Requirement for my circulator position is learning PAT, Pre-Op, PACU, and scrub nurse as well as my role as a circulator....so obviously, we learn to wear many hats!

tiny1 · Mar 14, 2011

Like I said, it depends on the facility and their needs and requirements. I agree, most facilities want to get as much as possible for the position you have regardless of the initials following your name. It has become more of how much they can get for less money.

eshleman · Mar 14, 2011

I am not an OR nurse, nor am I an ST, but my husband is a CST and he LOVES what he does. He went to school for three years for it- one year of pre reqs and then the actual program was 2 years long. He graduated with an associate's of science in surgical technology. Not all programs in surg tech training are equal. His program had the exact same pre req requirements as did the RN program at the school he went to, (A&P 1 and 2, pharm, micro, etc). He doesn't expect to be taking over any RN's any time soon, in fact he's quite content with little to no direct patient care. He works in the smaller hospital of the three in our town- I'm not quite sure how many OR's they've got though; I think it's around 10. He's worked hard to get where he currently is. He's now an invaluable part of both the heart and Davinci teams at his workplace, and the respect between the nurses and techs at that hospital is unbelievable. Currently he's working to receive his first assistant certification. It makes me really sad to see the bashing going in between people in this thread.

tiny1 · Mar 16, 2011

I agree with you. We should all work as a team to do the best for our patients without any regard to the initials behind the name. All of us have worked hard to do the best job that we can do. I would love to go back and get my first assist but working in a rural hospital with minimal staff requires me to take call 15 to 20 days a month and with my schedule, it is impossible. It is strange that every location is different when it comes to their hiring practies for surgery. With the economy like it is, who knows what the future will bring any of us.

Peetah · Mar 20, 2011

I am from Vancouver, B.C. and we have 2 LPns/ORts in our hospitals and they can only scrub for minor cases and do not scrub in for more complicated surgeries. We obviously know that there is financial benefits to management or the health authority for hiring ORts. Are there any other benefits, advantages or disadvantages in having ORts? Would you support an RN or technician in this role? What do you think an Rn would bring to the role that a technician does not?

JamieJCST · Mar 20, 2011

I'm curious as to how the RNs on here feel about CNAs/PCTs, CRNAs, PAs, NPs, etc. Are they all just "cheap labor" as well?

canesdukegirl, BSN, RN · Mar 20, 2011

I'm curious as to how the RNs on here feel about CNAs/PCTs, CRNAs, PAs, NPs, etc. Are they all just "cheap labor" as well?

1.CNAs do back breaking work with little or no words of encouragement. For the most part, they are golden, and we as nurses would be totally in the weeds without them. Yes, there are the few that milk the clock, chat with their friends when they should be working, give you "the look" when you ask them to do something--but they are few and we should not let one bad apple spoil the bunch.

2. PCTs---is this patient care technicians? Are they the same as CNAs?

3. CRNAs have been given the task of going through nursing school and then graduating, getting a few years of experience in a critical care setting, applying, being accepted, and then getting through CRNA school (which is no walk in the park), and then trying to find a job. When they do, they must acclimate to working under an anesthesiologist (in my state anyway) and then finding their "niche" in the intraoperative setting.

4. PAs have a job that I am only vaguely familiar with. I know that they are in clinic and also take call for traumas. I must admit that I am not able to speak with any confidence on the day to day tasks of a PA, and do not pretend to understand their role, although I imagine it must be stressful.

5. NPs also have quite a bit of responsibility on their shoulders and have gone through a rigorous program in order to obtain their degree.

So the question still remains...are they cheap labor? Let's define "cheap". In my opinion, NONE of the people that fill these jobs came by it easily. All of them had to be educated, and as we all know, getting your education is neither easy nor cheap. We all had to make sacrifices in order to get through school, no matter your job title.

The least common denominator, when you get rid of all of the static and the BS is that we are in the health care field to take care of patients. It matters not where you came from, what your background is, what your motivation is, what drives you or what others think of your job.

The foundation of health care workers in an interdisciplinary profession is that we have ONE objective; ONE common factor that we share: to care for patients.

RNPinkShoes · Mar 22, 2011

Nicely said!

The unique part of OR nursing is that we work in an area where all different kinds of specialties and "ranks" work very closely together in the same department, every single day, which makes it easy for us to "ruffle our feathers" at each other... and this topic definitly brings this out! We all have our special jobs and talents that bring us to together to provide the best patient care... but no matter what, we will always think that the scrub tech thinks they know everything and can take on any role; all the circulator does is chart and play on the computer; CRNA's just sit behind the drape and play sudoku; Anesthesiologists don't do anything; PA's think they are surgeons; and CPD people are stupid and can't put instrument trays together right! It's never ending.

RNPinkShoes · Mar 22, 2011

Which gets me thinking..... isn't it horrible the way we treat each other sometimes? We are all here for one reason only... the patient... no matter what the rank or job title.

The worst I have witnessed was a couple years ago.

We were transferring a patient from the OR table to cart at the end of the procedure. The PA walked away from the cart without putting the side rail up. The brave and gutsy nursing assistant kindly told him that he forgot to put the side rail up.... way to go for being a patient advocate!!

Later, he cornered her in a utility room and yelled at her. He got two inches from her face,and yelled to never, ever correct him again, because she was just a nursing assistant and he was her superior. The moment she came to me I wrote him up BIG TIME.