Support Kaci Hickox

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  1. Do you support Kaci Hickox?

    • 179
      Yes
    • 93
      No

272 members have participated

She is the nurse who returned from Africa and was placed in quarantine despite not being sick. I'm not going to give all the details here, they are readily available online. I support her position and hope you do too. She is not sick, she should not be quarentined.

Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.

You made me go get my computer. And you are interrupting my Trivia Crack time btw. . .

Providing a link to a page with legal jargon is not spoon feeding but if you think doing so overwhelms or scares people off. . . .

I'll admit I don't have formal legal training but extensive nursing education and a decent reading comprehension level.

a) Seems to indicate that the State Health director can arbitrarily dictate what constitutes a danger to public health. Pretty broad. Guess it might could even include such things as isolating all gay men cause they might have AIDS!!! But thankfully, it does provide some recourse. It does however provide that the "least restrictive alternative" be used. I would think with an uninfected, asymptomatic person, that restriction would go no further than a phone call from the health authorities once a day.

b & c seem to have little applicability to the case under discussion.

d). Discusses in detail the ability of the health department to restrict movement. It also provides for the affected individual (which I believe they envisioned as a sick/infected individual, not an asymptomatic & uninfected person) the ability to contest the restriction. . .

"Except as provided below for persons with tuberculosis, the court shall continue the limitation for a period not to exceed 30 days if it determines, by the preponderance of the evidence, that the limitation is reasonably necessary to prevent or limit the conveyance of a communicable disease or condition to others." (my emphasis)

Every medical or infectious disease expert that spoke regarding Kaci's case did not believe she had any risk for conveying communicable disease. Political wags on the other hand. . .

Then your NC law (and I'm not sure why we are discussing NC laws anyway) reads:

"In addition, where the petitioner can prove by a preponderance of the evidence that quarantine or isolation was not or is no longer needed for protection of the public health, the person quarantined or isolated may move the trial court to reconsider its order extending quarantine or isolation before the time for the order otherwise expires and may seek immediate or expedited termination of the order." (my emphasis).

So is your point that State officials can incarcerate whomever they want? I guess they can, but they will have to defend their actions in court. Do you believe Kaci should have sat at home like a good little girl, or should she have exercised her legal rights, as outlined in the law? (If Maine law is similar to NC)

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Specializes in LTC.
I guess I do have to spoon feed people!

GS_130A-145

"(a) The State Health Director and a local health director are empowered to exercise quarantine and isolation authority. Quarantine and isolation authority shall be exercised only when and so long as the public health is endangered, all other reasonable means for correcting the problem have been exhausted, and no less restrictive alternative exists."

The above is from that law you linked to, bold emphasis mine. Here's the thing, Kaci was not endangering the public's health in any way. She was not sick.

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Each state has their own laws. Some more strict than others. CA is dealing with this right now over measles. It just really bothers me that my fellow nurses don't understand the importance of public health. That you think one persons civil rights are more important than the health and well being of an entire community. OP commented that it is shown that it is not contagious until person is symptomatic. But that doesn't totally exclude the possibility that an asymptatic person can be contagious. Look at HIV. A person can be infected and asymptomatic for decades! They can still spread the disease. Obviously the higher viral load the more contagious. Everyone is different. Each person has different reactions. Why take that chance with something as deadly as ebola? Kaci knew the risks when she went over there. It comes with the territory. She should have know she would have some sort of isolation. I mean did she really think she could go to hot zone area and then go back to work the next week??? I would not want her to be my nurse! We can argue this until we are blue. Public health > civil rights. So until there is new case law that sets precedent that will not change.

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How can you prove she was not sick? Now obviously we know she didn't have ebola. But back in Nov we really didnt know if she had it or not. See alot of this could be cleared up with antigen testing. Which is why we should push our legislators to mandate antigen testing. All it would take is one blood draw and Kaci could go on with her life. Oh but antigen testing is too expensive. Thats Merica for ya!

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.
We can argue this until we are blue. Public health > civil rights. So until there is new case law that sets precedent that will not change.

We have argued this until we were blue in the face. You are just new to the game. The rest of us are well versed and skillful.

I agree:

Public health > civil rights

I do not agree:

Fearmongering > best current evidence.

Read the rest of the thread if you want to be up to date on the evidence. We have a plethora of terminal degreed contributors clarifying what the current evidence is.

And are you seriously advocating we lock up all HIV patients? Let's just get the straight. Cause if you are, I think we know how much credit to give your opinions.

By the way, HIV far more deadly and less curable than Ebola.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Each state has their own laws. Some more strict than others. CA is dealing with this right now over measles. It just really bothers me that my fellow nurses don't understand the importance of public health. That you think one persons civil rights are more important than the health and well being of an entire community. OP commented that it is shown that it is not contagious until person is symptomatic. But that doesn't totally exclude the possibility that an asymptatic person can be contagious. Look at HIV. A person can be infected and asymptomatic for decades! They can still spread the disease. Obviously the higher viral load the more contagious. Everyone is different. Each person has different reactions. Why take that chance with something as deadly as ebola? Kaci knew the risks when she went over there. It comes with the territory. She should have know she would have some sort of isolation. I mean did she really think she could go to hot zone area and then go back to work the next week??? I would not want her to be my nurse! We can argue this until we are blue. Public health > civil rights. So until there is new case law that sets precedent that will not change.

It really bothers me that my fellow nurses don't understand basic science of public health. By your way of thinking every nurse, every HCW, and every person should be quarantined that comes into contact with a person that had ebola whether they were asymptomatic at the time or not. This isn't based on science or law that is based on ignorance of the science.

Why do you suppose the CDC does not recommend routine quarantine for HCWs taking care of ebola patients or why the courts did not uphold these states' effort to try to quarantine asymptomatic HCWs? It is because the science and the evidence does not support mandatory quarantine for asymptomatic HCWs who have taken care of ebola patients.

Mandatory quarantine of these people only supports fear mongering and disbelief in scientific health care practices.

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Specializes in LTC.
How can you prove she was not sick? Now obviously we know she didn't have ebola. But back in Nov we really didnt know if she had it or not. See alot of this could be cleared up with antigen testing. Which is why we should push our legislators to mandate antigen testing. All it would take is one blood draw and Kaci could go on with her life. Oh but antigen testing is too expensive. Thats Merica for ya!

Have you read the whole thread? A lot of what I could say in response to your posts was said very eloquently in previous posts.

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Specializes in Nurse Scientist-Research.
See alot of this could be cleared up with antigen testing. Which is why we should push our legislators to mandate antigen testing. All it would take is one blood draw and Kaci could go on with her life. Oh but antigen testing is too expensive. Thats Merica for ya!

She had it, it was negative. They kept her locked up anyway. No fever, no symptoms, no positive test.

What was more expensive really? Releasing after being asymptomatic, no fever, no tests, or keeping her incarcerated and "cared for" by several HCWs, law enforcement. . .

Which by your logic, should have similarly been incarcerated for 21 days.

One more chance to prove you've actually read the thread and you will be the first person I block here.

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No HIV patients should not be locked up. You have to look at mode of transmission. Since there are so many terminal degreed experts on here then what is the exact mode of transmission for ebola? Lol I may not have a terminal degree. But I do have access to multiple journals and I am very well versed in recent ebola research. I would be more than glad to discuss this is detail :)

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
How can you prove she was not sick? Now obviously we know she didn't have ebola. But back in Nov we really didnt know if she had it or not. See alot of this could be cleared up with antigen testing. Which is why we should push our legislators to mandate antigen testing. All it would take is one blood draw and Kaci could go on with her life. Oh but antigen testing is too expensive. Thats Merica for ya!

It would help if you actually looked up ebola blood testing or any of this other information before you started spouting misinformation.

"Ebola virus is detected in blood only after onset of symptoms, most notably fever, which accompany the rise in circulating virus within the patient's body. It may take up to three days after symptoms start for the virus to reach detectable levels."

Diagnosis | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
No HIV patients should not be locked up. You have to look at mode of transmission. Since there are so many terminal degreed experts on here then what is the exact mode of transmission for ebola? Lol I may not have a terminal degree. But I do have access to multiple journals and I am very well versed in recent ebola research. I would be more than glad to discuss this is detail :)

Ebola research and the lack of science behind mandatory quarantines for asymptomatic persons exposed to ebola has already been discussed in detail on here.

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Ebola research and the lack of science behind mandatory quarantines for asymptomatic persons exposed to ebola has already been discussed in detail on here.

Ebola research and the lack of scientific proof that mandatory quarantines are not necessary for asymptomatic persons exposed to ebola has already been discussed in detail on some of the ebola threads.

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