Across Ohio, and the nation, the drive is on to require a BSN to secure...or continue...employment in acute and critical care settings. While the research data shows improved outcomes in these settings with a high level of BSN staffing, there are problems with this push. Some systems are giving experienced ADN's as few as two years to secure their BSN, yet these healthcare systems are failing to meet the commitment expected of these ADN's with a commitment to these experienced ADN's in securing their BSN. Tuition reimbursement plans consistently fail to meet the cost currently incurred in returning to school.
I saw the hand-writing on the wall, and secured my BSN before it became mandated. But my employers tuition reimbursement plan at work covered, at best, half the cost of one semester. This lack financial commitment to the educational advancement of experienced ADN's leaves these nurses angry and upset..feeling hospital administration are trying to get something for nothing, perhaps in order to let attrition thin the ranks of ADN's in acute and critical care settings. This attrition will, in turn, allow healthcare systems to hire in new grad BSN's at a lower starting salary than the experienced ADN's they will be replacing.
Until nurses stop being doormats, start acting like the professionals we are, and demanding the respect and benefits that derive from that professional status...nothing will change.
I believe that people are missing the point. The facilities are asking people to return to school and pay a fee to continue to work the job that they are currently working. 1. Are they saying that we are not good enough to do the job that we are doing now. We continue to work and take great care of the patient's even when short staffed. We sacrafice holidays and family events to come to work, join committees, etc. all of this while we are studing for classess to obtain the BSN. I read the evidence based paper and I suggest that other do as well. It looks to me that study also revealed that a smaller nurse patient ration was found to decrease patient mortality as well as having an increase of BSN's in the mix of nurse on the floors. Yet what the hospitals did was to place the responsiblity of the result onto the nurses and of course the nursestook responsilbily of the situation (we always do). This is a snow ball effect, now there are hosptials that are requiring Master degree level nurses. Guess what, the BSN nurses are screaming foul. Until we stand together and stop this bickering we will remain at the mercy of the hospitals. IMO, the requirment to obtain your RN was to pass the NCLEX. What steps that you took to pass the NCLEX was entirely up to you. I am happy for nurses who have obtained whatever level of education that they desire. That is the way it should be.
If we all step back, remove our own situations, and then look at it again, we will see that we are *ALL* correct in this situation. Yes, ADN's with experience are as good as if not better than some BSN's. Some LPN's are better than RN's, Some CNA's are better than :LKJPOIUTUGIKJH's. We have to support each other, that is all there is to it! I paid my way through LPN, ADN, and BSN school. My employer did not pay for it. They did require it, however. So no, the employer doesnt have to pay for it. And no, it doesnt seem right that you should get yours free when I paid for mine. Does it matter? No. What matters is that they are requiring it, so lets stop telling each other what is right, wrong, or better and just say, "We have to do it, lets start."
Experience is very important, yes, but there are some things that you will not learn from experience that you will get as a BSN. Similarly, there are some things you will not learn as a BSN that only experience can teach you. The BSN improved my ability to critically think and provide better outcomes. I'm glad I got it. I'm sorry your employer wants you to have it, but they do, so start now, don't wait.
I am not posting this to say anyone is right or wrong in their post- you are all right!! You are all valid! Nurses who are ADN for 30 years can nurse circles around me! But that's not what it comes down to. It comes down to the fact that it is now expected. For all of you experienced, hard working RN's that are ADN or Diploma (I was diploma), I want to learn from you, so please go back to school so you can stay in this profession. We need you...
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
So you're saying that you had 20 YEARS to get a BSN and didn't see the writing on the wall 20 years ago?
Not that it's any of your business, but yes I knew about it; however, personal circumstances including serious illnesses got in the way of my being able to complete the RN-BSN program I was attending.
But good on you for being insulting and condescending. Did they teach you that in your program?
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I wish you all the best ... really I do.
Unfortunately, my friend thought that she had her bases covered, but she really didn't. The husband she thought would support her forever died -- and she was left with VERY few retirement funds because she had never really thought about that much. (They didn't talk about money in her family.) Her kids live in another state, and she would like to move there to be close to her family ... but without her BSN, she is unlikely to get a decent job there. And she is not strong enough physically to go back to the bedside even if she could get a staff nurse job, having been away from the bedside so long.
I think it's smug, and a bit presumptuous to say that those who didn't get a BSN were just being clueless. Some of us had personal circumstances that made the extra expense impossible. In my case, it would be crazy to shell out the money to get the degree. A serious illness has forced me to stop working altogether. Most of my money goes for doctors' visits, prescription co-pays, etc. It's possible I could get sick again. If I put all that money going into school, what happens if I need it for medical expenses? Putting money away for retirement is 100% my responsibility since I don't have an employer matching my contributions.
When I was younger, I was dealing with another illness that cost me thousands of dollars. I could have bought a house for all I shelled out.
I have tried to finish my BSN; I have ~90+ credits. But right now, with just walking being a challenge, and two surgeries on the horizon...excuse me if I feel like finishing my BSN is waaayyy down the list in my priorities.
OCNR - your situation is the grossly unusual situation and it sounds like a BSN wouldn't make any difference in your life.
If you are having difficulty walking, then working on your health status seems like about ALL you could do.
I don't think your illness applies to the other 99% who have had 20 years to get a degree with one excuse or another that has nothing to do with anything. Our "profession" should somehow be exempt from increasing it's standards in an unexpectedly complex health care paradigm? People can function just fine as a widget in most situations but then they miss the boat completely by paying no attention to the forces of the job market which WILL affect their ability to work in some situations. It's not an ANA conspiracy to put all non BSN's out of work. It's simply the market forces.
I think it's smug, and a bit presumptuous to say that those who didn't get a BSN were just being clueless. Some of us had personal circumstances that made the extra expense impossible. In my case, it would be crazy to shell out the money to get the degree. A serious illness has forced me to stop working altogether.
Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that everyone who didn't get a BSN was being clueless. I said that my friend lived in a state of denial for several years. She had the money. She had the opportunity. She chose not to think about her professional future and the education she might need. She chose to believe that ADN would be sufficient for her job in staff development. She chose to believe her husband would support her forever financially. She chose to believe she could always "go back to the bedside" if she needed to. She was wrong on all counts -- and is now in her late 50's going back to school and admits that she should have done it a long time ago.
Your situation may be totally different -- and it sounds as if your health problems are serious enough to cause difficulties for you no matter what type of education you might have gotten.
I wish you well ... but don't generalize your personal problematic situation to everyone out there who decided not pursue higher education. Some people would have had to overcome big obstacles to go to school ... but other people did not face such big obstacles. They simply didn't want to do it and found excuses not to.
Honestly, at this point we should just make the BSN the entry to practice for new nurses and make practical nursing an associates degree.
Having multiple educational pathways to the same licencure was never a good idea.
Of course every practicing diploma/ADN RN should be grandfathered in. As should LPNs who attended a vocational program. How can there be any question about this? Is there anyone out there who really thinks ADNs should be forced to upgrade their education or risk being downgraded? Has anyone, anywhere, ever, worked with an experienced ADN nurse and said to themselves "Gee I wish I was working with a new grad BSN instead"?
Phase out the ADN programs. Phase out the PN "technical schools". Make BSN the entry for registered nursing. Make an associates degree program at community colleges for practical nursing (APN? I think that acronym's taken...). Grandfather in every living RN and LPN, and everyone can move on with their lives.
Employer support for ADN-BSN funding will become a non-issue. ALL new RNs will BE BSN degreed. And, as any sane and rational person realizes, all currently practicing nurses are perfectly capable of performing the job they've been performing for years.
Now, if these grandfathered RNs want to move up the totem pole into management roles, well, maybe they'll have to get that BSN in order to do so. But to tell Sally-Sue, RN diploma grad with experience working the floor at City Hospital that she needs to obtain a BSN to keep her job is asinine.
Making BSN the entry to practice should be enough. Our profession isn't compromised or embarrased by grandfathering people in. We don't need to force any existing nurses to "upgrade".
OCNR - your situation is the grossly unusual situation and it sounds like a BSN wouldn't make any difference in your life.
If you are having difficulty walking, then working on your health status seems like about ALL you could do.
I don't think your illness applies to the other 99% who have had 20 years to get a degree with one excuse or another that has nothing to do with anything. Our "profession" should somehow be exempt from increasing it's standards in an unexpectedly complex health care paradigm? People can function just fine as a widget in most situations but then they miss the boat completely by paying no attention to the forces of the job market which WILL affect their ability to work in some situations. It's not an ANA conspiracy to put all non BSN's out of work. It's simply the market forces.
The ANA is irrelevant to most bedside nurses. Frankly they are not supporting us as they should by working for no lift environments, nurses to patient ratio's like the National Nurses. I could care less what they think about a BSN and all their blather about going back to school. What's relevant to me is a organization that actually advocates for the nurse instead of pushing a BSN as if it was the solution for the real problem of poor working conditions nurses face! BSN only workforce will not improve patient care or decrease the staff turnover due to poor working conditions, unless if people are forced to remain due to ridiculous amounts of student loans. The BSN push will backfire when the majority decide to get their NP to get away from the hospital system! That is already the case where I work, where the job is viewed as a paid residency and to help pay their bills while their get their NP! I'm amazed at the amount of student loan debt many nurses are willing to take on to accomplish this goal even $100,000 or more between BSN and grad school!
I wish the National Nurses United that has helped CA nurses with patient ratios were the top dogs. Don't waste my time asking me to support the ANA! The ANA has proved itself to be an impotent organization that seems to be in bed with the hospital association!
Brandon, you make awesome points and you actually got me thinking a little bit differently. I have never supported "grandfathering" in the traditional sense because I have good experience and worked hard to get my BSN. I feel that grandfathering may somehow negate the extra work I took to get my BSN. This is a little smug, I know, but I'm being honest. I didn't get grandfathered in so why should anyone else? That being said, you do make a great point. Nurses with good experience should *NOT* be forced out if they don't have a BSN. I think there may be some miscommunication in what we mean by grandfathered. Do we mean that they should be exempt from getting the BSN, or should they be treated as if they have a BSN? That's a sketchy subject. Remember that not all BSN's were educated such as an entry level. There is a difference there that needs discussed. I do believe that they should be allowed to continue practicing, but the concern comes in when they leave their current role or position and look elsewhere. They will not be situated well to get another job in many places (as wrong as this is, it is the current market we are in). The thing is that the BSN courses really do give you more tools, and grandfathering nurses in will prevent them from getting those tools. Now, I know this isn't true for everyone, there are too many nurses that have specific situations in their own lives that cause difficulty. There is a solution, I do not know what it is. No, the profession is NOT compromised or embarrassed for grandfathering nurses in. I also do not see BSN as an "upgrade," but rather a new set of tools in the toolbox of nursing. Some people will disagree with this next statement, but I know only of few nurses who went on to get their BSN that would say it did not positively affect their ability to care for patients, regardless of their background. I think we need to separate the "BSN ENTRY" and the "RN-BSN" as well, because a lot of 20-30 year nurses have returned to get their BSN. If we now say it's not necessary, what was their hard work for? I understand both points, and I have conflicting feelings about them. I'm just furthering discussion here. I do believe that the Nursing Profession needs to decide now how entry will be handled, and I think that LPN's should be an AAS and RN's should be a BSN for entry moving forward.
Brandon, you make awesome points and you actually got me thinking a little bit differently. I have never supported "grandfathering" in the traditional sense because I have good experience and worked hard to get my BSN. I feel that grandfathering may somehow negate the extra work I took to get my BSN. This is a little smug, I know, but I'm being honest. I didn't get grandfathered in so why should anyone else? That being said, you do make a great point. Nurses with good experience should *NOT* be forced out if they don't have a BSN. I think there may be some miscommunication in what we mean by grandfathered. Do we mean that they should be exempt from getting the BSN, or should they be treated as if they have a BSN? That's a sketchy subject. Remember that not all BSN's were educated such as an entry level. There is a difference there that needs discussed. I do believe that they should be allowed to continue practicing, but the concern comes in when they leave their current role or position and look elsewhere. They will not be situated well to get another job in many places (as wrong as this is, it is the current market we are in). The thing is that the BSN courses really do give you more tools, and grandfathering nurses in will prevent them from getting those tools. Now, I know this isn't true for everyone, there are too many nurses that have specific situations in their own lives that cause difficulty. There is a solution, I do not know what it is. No, the profession is NOT compromised or embarrassed for grandfathering nurses in. I also do not see BSN as an "upgrade," but rather a new set of tools in the toolbox of nursing. Some people will disagree with this next statement, but I know only of few nurses who went on to get their BSN that would say it did not positively affect their ability to care for patients, regardless of their background. I think we need to separate the "BSN ENTRY" and the "RN-BSN" as well, because a lot of 20-30 year nurses have returned to get their BSN. If we now say it's not necessary, what was their hard work for? I understand both points, and I have conflicting feelings about them. I'm just furthering discussion here. I do believe that the Nursing Profession needs to decide now how entry will be handled, and I think that LPN's should be an AAS and RN's should be a BSN for entry moving forward.
So you'd strip AAS nurses that took the same NCLEX you did to carry the same license you do of that very license? Smug? As John Adams said in 1776, "DIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSGUSSSSSSTIINNNNGGGGG!". With all the cultural sensitivity you learned in your hallowed BSN program did you ever consider how this would disproportionately un-license minority nurses, in addition to working class nurses that don't necessarily want to take on staggering debt to participate in the profession that they're licensed to perform in?
"Whites Only"? Too direct. "African Americans need not apply"? Those liberals will get us. "BSN only"? That's the ticket!
Community colleges play a crucial role in increasing the nation’s supply of minority nurses, according to AACC. ADN programs educate nearly 55 percent of black RNs, while BSN programs educate 32 percent of RNs from this population. Likewise, ADN programs prepare 55 percent of Hispanic nurses, compared to 39 percent educated in BSN programs.
A full brief about the scurrilous rogues ruining your field:
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23 Posts
I believe that people are missing the point. The facilities are asking people to return to school and pay a fee to continue to work the job that they are currently working. 1. Are they saying that we are not good enough to do the job that we are doing now. We continue to work and take great care of the patient's even when short staffed. We sacrafice holidays and family events to come to work, join committees, etc. all of this while we are studing for classess to obtain the BSN. I read the evidence based paper and I suggest that other do as well. It looks to me that study also revealed that a smaller nurse patient ration was found to decrease patient mortality as well as having an increase of BSN's in the mix of nurse on the floors. Yet what the hospitals did was to place the responsiblity of the result onto the nurses and of course the nursestook responsilbily of the situation (we always do). This is a snow ball effect, now there are hosptials that are requiring Master degree level nurses. Guess what, the BSN nurses are screaming foul. Until we stand together and stop this bickering we will remain at the mercy of the hospitals. IMO, the requirment to obtain your RN was to pass the NCLEX. What steps that you took to pass the NCLEX was entirely up to you. I am happy for nurses who have obtained whatever level of education that they desire. That is the way it should be.