Across Ohio, and the nation, the drive is on to require a BSN to secure...or continue...employment in acute and critical care settings. While the research data shows improved outcomes in these settings with a high level of BSN staffing, there are problems with this push. Some systems are giving experienced ADN's as few as two years to secure their BSN, yet these healthcare systems are failing to meet the commitment expected of these ADN's with a commitment to these experienced ADN's in securing their BSN. Tuition reimbursement plans consistently fail to meet the cost currently incurred in returning to school.
I saw the hand-writing on the wall, and secured my BSN before it became mandated. But my employers tuition reimbursement plan at work covered, at best, half the cost of one semester. This lack financial commitment to the educational advancement of experienced ADN's leaves these nurses angry and upset..feeling hospital administration are trying to get something for nothing, perhaps in order to let attrition thin the ranks of ADN's in acute and critical care settings. This attrition will, in turn, allow healthcare systems to hire in new grad BSN's at a lower starting salary than the experienced ADN's they will be replacing.
Until nurses stop being doormats, start acting like the professionals we are, and demanding the respect and benefits that derive from that professional status...nothing will change.
kidglov3s - I believe you have some frustrations? I did not say strip anyone. My concern is not whether or not they are good nurses. My concern is that when looking for a job, the AD nurses are not positioned in the current market as desirable. That's a fact. Yes, it would irritate me that someone who did not go to the extra schooling was treated as if they were. That's why I wanted to open discussion on the meaning of "grandfathered." Did you misread that part? If you want to be a professional, be educated like one.
P.S. I was a DIPLOMA nurse. I did not incur incredible debt in my "DIPLOMA" program as I went to BSN school, I just chose the right one and not the quick and easy one. Obviously you should consider the cultural sensitivity part of the BSN program, but barring that, the acidic nature of your post is very difficult to even take seriously. When you would like to discuss particular parts of my post, lets do that. :)
kidglov3s - I believe you have some frustrations? I did not say strip anyone. My concern is not whether or not they are good nurses. My concern is that when looking for a job, the AD nurses are not positioned in the current market as desirable. That's a fact. Yes, it would irritate me that someone who did not go to the extra schooling was treated as if they were. That's why I wanted to open discussion on the meaning of "grandfathered." Did you misread that part? If you want to be a professional, be educated like one.
I'm sorry I read "I think that LPN's should be an AAS" as saying that you don't feel AAS nurses should be able to sit for the NCLEX RN exam and that current ADN RNs without so much experience should be downgraded to LPN, and I got so ****** off I didn't see the moving forward part, which does make it true that you didn't suggest current RNs to be stripped of their license, just for people of the same education level that are currently eligible to sit for the NCLEX-RN exam not to be eligible in the future. I bet after I take the what like 5 or 6 non-patient-care courses that differentiate my ADN/BA background from a BSN background I'll never make such a mistake again.
LOL that's not the point! If you disagree, just tell me! My opinions are not set in stone, are subject to change, and I did not see it through your point. You do make a great point!!!! But, by being so ridiculously ******* off and not being able to control yourself to actually add a comment professionally, you made me want to disregard your position. Thanks for reposting something that is readible, and it makes sense!! That is all you need to do. Granted, you are still quite condescending, I still get your point, and you are right in a few things, but I still will not down-play you or your feelings, and i will not down-talk your opinion. It's called professionalism, and no, I do not need a degree for that.
P.S. I completely agree with your point about the AAS-RN. I absolutely did not look at it that way. Remember, I got a diploma, which is considered less than an ADN, so it wouldn't make sense for me to feel that way! That doesn't change the fact either that ADN prepared nurses are going to have more difficulty moving forward. My point, IN MY EYES and the way I see it, was that LPN's could stand to have more education in nursing! ALL NURSES COULD LEARN MORE. And no, please do not assume that by saying that I feel that LPN's aren't smart. Man, you just cant say anything on here anymore, can you?
P.S. I completely agree with your point about the AAS-RN. I absolutely did not look at it that way. Remember, I got a diploma, which is considered less than an ADN, so it wouldn't make sense for me to feel that way! That doesn't change the fact either that ADN prepared nurses are going to have more difficulty moving forward. My point, IN MY EYES and the way I see it, was that LPN's could stand to have more education in nursing! ALL NURSES COULD LEARN MORE. And no, please do not assume that by saying that I feel that LPN's aren't smart. Man, you just cant say anything on here anymore, can you?
I agree there, education is wonderful, and I do believe that a more educated nursing workforce will be a safer nursing workforce, but I would like to see this come about through enabling nurses to access this education more easily rather than building walls for them to climb over and fostering infighting and resentment like I totally was engaging in.
You are right about that. I definitely did not see your point at all, of course, until you made it. I hear ya! We're in this boat together, right? I will always remember from this point on that I have to be a bit more careful and I learned something here. Thanks!
You are right about that. I definitely did not see your point at all, of course, until you made it. I hear ya! We're in this boat together, right? I will always remember from this point on that I have to be a bit more careful and I learned something here. Thanks!
I did too, this was a useful exchange. Between graduating University and Monday I felt like I was always overqualified for the jobs I had (non patient care, non degree requiring), but it's like as soon as I had my license and started reading this board and seeing job listings it's like oh wow I never realized the extent to which I'm viewed as being inferior now, and have been struggling to come to terms with that. To see voices against substantial support from hospitals to do RN to BSN was a shock to me, because I always just kinda assumed the hospital would cover that for some reason to the extent I never even looked into it.
In wrestling terms, I felt like I got worked, then I turned heel, now I'm either begging off or turning babyface, probably depends if I'm Ric Flair or not because you know he's gonna turn on Sting. Why would anyone team with Flair against Arn Anderson, it's obvious where that's going.
Yes, by grandfathering I mean an across the board exemption for all diploma and ADN RNs and for all LPNs who do not have an associates.
This is the only way a "BSN only" plan will work. Any plan that excludes or forces RNs to go back to school to "keep" their licence will only result in strife and bitterness and a huge loss of experience.
I'm pretty sure grandfathering is what happened in Canada with great success. Maybe our Canadian friends can elaborate.
Should grandfathered RNs be treated "as if they have a BSN"? Mmmmm.... no, there's no need to. They'll still be the same RN they were the day before. Like I said, some employers might still require grandfathered nurses to expand their education to be eligible for promotion. Such is the case in most fields of employment. So, yes, we would still see some RNs go on to BSN and beyond, even after they're grandfathered in.
In a grandfathering scenario, it wouldn't be long before the remaining ADN/diploma RNs are made up wholly of seasoned, battle tough nurses. So I doubt very much they'll find themselves unemployed in favor of newer BSN nurses. Experience will always be the single most important factor in a nurse's hire-ability.
I wonder how the "holdover" ADN/diploma RNs have fared in Canada in the years since that country went BSN-only. I bet they're doing just fine, with employers valuing the wealth of experience they bring to the table.
The "grandfathering in" was discussed (over and over again) way back in the 80's when I was in nursing school. I see 25 years later, it is still being discussed. Apparently nobody is being "grandfathered in" since so many facilities are requiring the BSN. I do wish hospitals would take prior degrees into consideration. I have the BSN, but I already had a degree in Business and in accounting. I was lucky that I didn't have to take out loans to further my education. If I had to get the BSN today, I don't think I would, unless someone else paid for it. The classes I took for the ADN to BSN were a joke. Fluff. The management and leadership classes were nothing compared to my business degree. If I had it to do over again, I would spend that money on an MBA.
The community college in my city grants a bachelor's degree in three fields. I've never understood why they couldn't do that for nursing. Any educators out there that could explain why nursing is excluded?
NurseGuyBri
308 Posts
kidglov3s - I believe you have some frustrations? I did not say strip anyone. My concern is not whether or not they are good nurses. My concern is that when looking for a job, the AD nurses are not positioned in the current market as desirable. That's a fact. Yes, it would irritate me that someone who did not go to the extra schooling was treated as if they were. That's why I wanted to open discussion on the meaning of "grandfathered." Did you misread that part? If you want to be a professional, be educated like one.