Stupid Things that get you kicked out of nursing school

Aunt Minnie · Aug 29, 2005

I think the reason my school is so difficult is their trying to set new standards for the nursing students. The schools pass rate for the NCLEX has become low from the past year. Because of this we have to pass every math exam with 100% or we fail with one attempt. We also have to make a 75% or above on the final or you fail... .... My class is the test run, if our class has good NCLEX pass rates they will keep the rules they made for my class. But if we all fail out and no one passes the NCLEX, they will probally go back to the old rules of not having to pass the final and getting multiple trys on math tests.

I think the 75% on the final is entirely reasonable. The 100% math tests, however, are absurd!

It feels like some schools are just trying a variety of tricks and gimmicks to keep their NCLEX pass rate high. Now granted, as I understand it (someone speak up if I'm wrong hehe), nursing schools are required to have a certain number of their graduating seniors pass the NCLEX in order to keep their accreditation. However, if their NCLEX pass rate is low, there's likely more to the equation than a too lenient grading system. Rather than trying to weed out the weaker of the pack through these (imo) ridiculous testing standards, schools could instead focus on more strigent applicant screening, lowering their student:teacher ratio, and actually improving the quality of the education that they are offering. Imagine that! I know, I know, in a perfect world... :rolleyes:

I realize that this type of thing is nothing new. It just really irks me to hear that so many of you are required to jump though these bizarre hoops. In a way, I suppose the blame is partly on the shoulders of incoming students though, because we often use the NCLEX pass rate of schools to rate their quality. My school has fairly reasonable testing policies (and I asked around to actual students, not just faculty/administrators to verify this) and, out of the several schools that I considered, the highest retention rate of students. Whenever someone asks me now about possibly attending NS I urge them consider the school's retention rate along with (if not above) the NCLEX pass rate.

Good luck everyone :)

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Aug 29, 2005

During my first semester one of my peers was kicked out for not passing a calculations test.She just needed a little help with the math but instead they failed her at the very end of the semester after she had done all the work for funds! I really felt quite bad for her, she would have had a better grade than I did!
Second semester, One of my fellow peers who had been a bad teen was kicked out for have a criminal record as a minor. Instead of telling him they werent going to let him go to clinicals and pass meds they let him get all the way through fundamentals and then in adult one said sorry your out of the program. An he talked to the nursing dean about his record before entering the program and she had no problems!:angryfire

Re: the student who failed the calculation test. (1) if she needed help, did she ask for it? Or, did she just keep sliding deeper and deeper into the hole she made for herself? One of the characteristics nursing schools look for in future nurses is that they can admit to when they need assistance and then seek it out (2) calculating dosages is extremely important and if someone can't figure out drug dosages they are going to make a lot of mistakes. Do you want to be a patient on the end of one of those mistakes? (3) being good in one subject doesn't guarantee that someone is going to be that good in something else

Re: the bad teen. . .it's possible you are missing part of the story. You have only heard your peer's side of the issue. The dean, for reasons of confidentiality, is not going to discuss the other side with you. Is it possible this guy was lying to you about the reasons he was terminated from the program? Is it possible that some of his record was not racked up in the juvenile court, but in an adult court instead? Is it possible that he has gotten into trouble again and just didn't mention that to you? It is possible the dean has knowledge of something you will never, ever know that affected his being in your nursing program. Looking at his background the dean might have been concerned the board would not want to issue a license to this person so she queried them. Maybe your peer left that part out of the things he told you. If he had any violence or drug and alcohol abuse in his background the dean would have been right to be concerned. It's possible that it took the state board of nursing a whole semester to get back to the dean about whether or not this student would be able to qualify for a license with a criminal record. Questions posed to the board sometimes take awhile to get answered. Who do you think this young man would have been angry at if he had discovered after he had taken state boards that he was being denied a license because of a criminal background? The board of nursing or the dean? It sounds to me like the dean did him a great favor. He will have to take responsibility for his actions for the rest of his life.

Please have faith and respect in the people who run your nursing program. They have a duty to keep other students and potential patients safe and free of harm. They have your best interests at heart, really. Keep an open mind, question things, but don't be so quick to judge without as many facts as you can gather.

truern · Aug 29, 2005

On a side note, I recently took my primary BLS certification course. We were allowed to miss 4 out of 25 questions to pass. How is it okay to pass a CPR course--which centers on highly stressful, life and death healthcare--with an 84% and at the same time need a 100% on a dosage test? Okay, maybe that analogy is not perfect but the disparity in requirements still doesn't make sense to me.

Well, hopefully you'll *never* have to use your CPR skills, but you'll pass hundreds of meds a week.

The math is not that hard. The only problem I have with med calc tests in NS is when they involve antiquated measures that *nobody* uses anymore, and if they do there's a conversion chart available.

I wouldn't want a nurse that couldn't calculate my meds, and I don't want to *be* a nurse that can't, either.

luvdancink · Aug 30, 2005

Well, hopefully you'll *never* have to use your CPR skills, but you'll pass hundreds of meds a week.
The math is not that hard. The only problem I have with med calc tests in NS is when they involve antiquated measures that *nobody* uses anymore, and if they do there's a conversion chart available.
I wouldn't want a nurse that couldn't calculate my meds, and I don't want to *be* a nurse that can't, either.

We aren't allowed conversion tables... all math long hand and all conversions are to be memorized... and you have to get a 100%! AHHH!!

IvoryLena · Aug 30, 2005

Re: the student who failed the calculation test. (1) if she needed help, did she ask for it? Or, did she just keep sliding deeper and deeper into the hole she made for herself? One of the characteristics nursing schools look for in future nurses is that they can admit to when they need assistance and then seek it out (2) calculating dosages is extremely important and if someone can't figure out drug dosages they are going to make a lot of mistakes. Do you want to be a patient on the end of one of those mistakes? (3) being good in one subject doesn't guarantee that someone is going to be that good in something else
Re: the bad teen. . .it's possible you are missing part of the story. You have only heard your peer's side of the issue. The dean, for reasons of confidentiality, is not going to discuss the other side with you. Is it possible this guy was lying to you about the reasons he was terminated from the program? Is it possible that some of his record was not racked up in the juvenile court, but in an adult court instead? Is it possible that he has gotten into trouble again and just didn't mention that to you? It is possible the dean has knowledge of something you will never, ever know that affected his being in your nursing program. Looking at his background the dean might have been concerned the board would not want to issue a license to this person so she queried them. Maybe your peer left that part out of the things he told you. If he had any violence or drug and alcohol abuse in his background the dean would have been right to be concerned. It's possible that it took the state board of nursing a whole semester to get back to the dean about whether or not this student would be able to qualify for a license with a criminal record. Questions posed to the board sometimes take awhile to get answered. Who do you think this young man would have been angry at if he had discovered after he had taken state boards that he was being denied a license because of a criminal background? The board of nursing or the dean? It sounds to me like the dean did him a great favor. He will have to take responsibility for his actions for the rest of his life.
Please have faith and respect in the people who run your nursing program. They have a duty to keep other students and potential patients safe and free of harm. They have your best interests at heart, really. Keep an open mind, question things, but don't be so quick to judge without as many facts as you can gather.

On the first situation where the girl failed the math, This test could of been done at the beginning of the program since we weren't even passing meds that semester, instead of letting her do all of the work for fundamentals and then failing her at the end. Just because you fail your first math test (which was all new material) doesn't mean your just too dumb understand it, she could have been offered tutoring. Many of the nursing programs give you more than one chance to get a 100%, and many of the students who fail the first time get it by the second time. Who is to say " oh she failed the first test so she would never be able to give a correctly calculated mediction when she became a real RN." I already posted she did not seek help, which is very unfortunate for her, cause I would have helped her, which makes it a very stupid thing to get kicked out of nursing school for.

On the second situation, it is very easy to say mabye I dont know the story, mabye he burnt down a hospital when I wasn't there or ran over a teacher and no one knew about it. On the other hand, this is a guy who openly admitted his criminal record to the faculty from the very beginning before he ever entered the program. He did not try to hide it to anyone including his clinical group what the charges were as a minor. I would think as a dean of nursing you would know that some people with criminal records cannot take the boards and would inform those students with criminal records at the beginning of the program.

I love all the instructors I've had. No teacher at my school has really been unfair to me, however I have seen other students treated unfairly. My own instructor did not agree with failing these students and said it was all part of our Dean's new policies and she could not challenge her decisions even if she did not agree with them. I totally understand instructors make decisions for reasons and I respect those decisions. This is more of policy issuses made by the dean I dont agree with than instructors randomly failing people out of blue. I know my instructors want to help us in every way possible. However my dean rarely ever talks to students and actually fell alseep during orientation (which was rather funny at the time, just thought she might have a sleeping disorder). Then after all this happened (making every test 100% on the first time or you fail) I looked up her profile on RateMyProfessor.com, She had the lowest marks in the entire school. Past student RNs said she would fall asleep during her own lecture, and they felt sorry for the students who were going to have her as a dean the next year. Although on a good note all of the other instructors had very good notes whom are my instructors now. The adult 2 instructors are choosing to ignore her new rules, however I'm not sure if that's going to fly by her. I'm sure once she finds out that will be the end of that.

mandrews · Aug 31, 2005

OK you wanted to hear about stupid things that get you kicked out of nursing school. These are some stupid things some of my classmates did.

1. Going to lunch and having a margarita without removing your school name badges and someone calls the school before you get back to class.

2. At clinicals discussing patients or hospital staff in the elevator, again with your namebadge boldly stating your school and name.

3. Leaving clinicals to run a quick errand thinking nobody will miss you.

4. Stealing someones careplan and using it as your own and letting two of your friends copy the same identical careplan. HELLO!

5. Getting caught with the doc in the stairwell with his pants unzipped while his wife the DON is talking to your instructor.

6. Talking smart to a patient that happens to be the president of the facilities niece during clinicals.

7. Not showing up for your groups community assessment and thinking they will just write your name on the project.

8. Making your ex mad and he turns you in for child abuse and you get arrested during clinicals. This takes about 6 monthes and many parenting classes to clear up. Seems that when the child tells the truth they decide the child might be protecting you.

9. Not showing up for clinicals and they realize that your house has burned down every clinical, and your grandmother has died several times as well.

10. Pushing or administering any med the school has forbidden you to give like insulin just because the nurse told you go ahead it will be alright I will watch you, and it ends up being a med error.

11. Cussing out your ex's girlfriend while talking on your cellphone in the cafeteria.

12. Chit Chatting with the nurses during clinicals and telling them how much your school SUCKS!

13. Using the hospital computer to look at records of interesting people in the hospital that you are not assigned to.

14. During clinicals you confronting one of your fellow classmates and trying to start a fight in the parking lot. They charge you with intimidation and the school decides for their safety you can not come back to school until the person you intimidated graduates.

15. Your freshman year you get a new clinical patient and you tell her you can't turn and reposition her because she is too heavy and there is not enough staff there to move her rear and the patient turns out to be a Senior Instructor that has cancer and is too weak to take care of herself. She did make a full recovery and you were remembered.

These are just a few of the things I witnessed when I was in school that got people removed from school.

grentea · Aug 31, 2005

Mandrews-Your list is astounding for the stuff people got kicked out for and in some cases the fact that some people (ie. the gal who was with the doc in the starwell) thought they could get away with those shenanigans. Wow.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Aug 31, 2005

OK you wanted to hear about stupid things that get you kicked out of nursing school. These are some stupid things some of my classmates did. . .These are just a few of the things I witnessed when I was in school that got people removed from school.

Ha! Ha! That was the best list ever. What an exciting place your school must have been! Lots to talk about! Ha! Ha! One of the students in my husbands nursing classes was kind of nutsy and started doing cartwheels in the nursing lab one day. She had a skirt on and--well, you can image what everyone saw. That was the last the class saw of her!

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Aug 31, 2005

I guess you're not understanding me. Let me see if I can make it clearer. It is a college student's responsiblity to seek the answers to their questions and problems, not the instructors duty to hand the answers to the students on silver platters. The instructor can be a resource to "help" you find help answers. We never got a direct answer from an instructor, but responses like, "Did you do a literature search of nursing journals?", "Did you look at the tapes in the lab about this?" I think some students forget that although they are in nursing programs, they are also college students. Each collegiate institution has an obligation to help students learn to think for themselves and learn where to go for resources to find answers. I guess a good analogy to use here would be "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." That is what college education is all about. This is partly why everyone has all kinds of prerequisites to take. They are partly to give you some new information and partly designed to be exercises in learning to find answers for yourself. Your instructors are teaching you how to fish. Don't fight it. It's a skill that you will use throughout your life--and not just for nursing questions. A nursing student who finds answers to drug calculations by doing it on their own will (1) have a sense of pride and accomplishment at having achieved success over something that once seemed impossible, and (2) never forget how to do drug calculations.

Once again, about the student who was discharged from the program. . .just because someone admits to their wrongdoing doesn't absolve them of the consequences of it. Another analogy: even though a murderer admits to his crime and is remorseful doesn't excuse it--he's still going to prison and it is always going to be on his record. Past acts come up time and time again over people's lives. (Your decision to become a nurse is going to have an impact over the remainder of your lifetime.) While some places might be forgiving, others are not. The state board (most state boards) don't forgive specific types of crimes and they do it in the interest of us, the public. We are not living in a soap opera world where the characters do bad things all the time and always manage to get out of jail (unless the character is being written out). The real world is right to be concerned about people who don't follow the law. A criminal can be a nice guy with a nice personality, but he still committed a crime and you have to question his decision making skills. We can like Don Corleone from the Godfather movies because in many ways he was presented as having some characteristics we liked and that got our sympathy. The filmmakers have done the same with Tony Soprano on the HBO series. He's a nice guy, but, honestly, would you want to work with him day after day knowing the kind of "other" things that he does?

Regarding your dean. . .you said, "I would think as a dean of nursing you would know that some people with criminal records cannot take the boards and would inform those students with criminal records at the beginning of the program." It is unfair to think that someone knows all the answers. What your dean did know, it seems, is where to go for the answer. That would be an example of finding an answer on your own. If that is, indeed, what she did then I would applaud her and point out that she demonstrated a character trait of a good nurse: she acted on a question and concern, sought information to help her make a decision, and then made the decision. That would be a demonstration of problem solving. While you are learning about nursing, your RN program also must teach you to problem solve or you will literally fail at an RN job. Examples of people problem solving are all around you in a college setting (and even in your universe of family and friends), but no one is going to point them all out to you. You have to do some thinking and reflecting on your own. You have to ask yourself, "how does this incident fit the mold of what the instructor was talking about today". This is how you get the most out of an education. If you, or other students who read this, think that your learning of any college subject is strictly in the classroom and out of a textbook, you are wasting your time and money by going to college. You can always buy and read a textbook on your own. But, you use your classtime and your instructors to pick their brains on how to put that textbook information to use. The things you learn can be applied to all of life. . .that is the value of higher education.

I am trying to give you some insight that took me four years of college (over a 20 year period) to learn. It is not because I am mean, but because I want you to ignore your prejudices, open your mind and expand. This is really what you should be getting from your college education.

mandrews · Aug 31, 2005

Ha! Ha! That was the best list ever. What an exciting place your school must have been! Lots to talk about! Ha! Ha! One of the students in my husbands nursing classes was kind of nutsy and started doing cartwheels in the nursing lab one day. She had a skirt on and--well, you can image what everyone saw. That was the last the class saw of her!

MAYBE SHE WAS A FLASHDANCER!!!! LOL!! :rotfl: :chuckle :rotfl: :chuckle

mandrews · Aug 31, 2005

I guess you're not understanding me. Let me see if I can make it clearer. It is a college student's responsiblity to seek the answers to their questions and problems, not the instructors duty to hand the answers to the students on silver platters.

DAYTONITE

Did you see the article from Colgate University yesterday. They have had it with what they call helicopter parents who spend to much time hovering and making excuses for their children. One example was a school trip to China and the parents called to complain about the conditions and wanted to know what the school was going to do about it.

If I understood it the Dean is thinking of having freshman parenting classes regarding letting their children grow up and learn responsibility.

melissa

Nathalie · Aug 31, 2005

Now some of these reasons are kind of outragous!!!!! Like who cares if you dont like your school???? WOW!! it;s actually making me think twice and being more careful about what I will say and do when I start Nursing School. :)

OK you wanted to hear about stupid things that get you kicked out of nursing school. These are some stupid things some of my classmates did.
1. Going to lunch and having a margarita without removing your school name badges and someone calls the school before you get back to class.
2. At clinicals discussing patients or hospital staff in the elevator, again with your namebadge boldly stating your school and name.
3. Leaving clinicals to run a quick errand thinking nobody will miss you.
4. Stealing someones careplan and using it as your own and letting two of your friends copy the same identical careplan. HELLO!
5. Getting caught with the doc in the stairwell with his pants unzipped while his wife the DON is talking to your instructor.
6. Talking smart to a patient that happens to be the president of the facilities niece during clinicals.
7. Not showing up for your groups community assessment and thinking they will just write your name on the project.
8. Making your ex mad and he turns you in for child abuse and you get arrested during clinicals. This takes about 6 monthes and many parenting classes to clear up. Seems that when the child tells the truth they decide the child might be protecting you.
9. Not showing up for clinicals and they realize that your house has burned down every clinical, and your grandmother has died several times as well.
10. Pushing or administering any med the school has forbidden you to give like insulin just because the nurse told you go ahead it will be alright I will watch you, and it ends up being a med error.
11. Cussing out your ex's girlfriend while talking on your cellphone in the cafeteria.
12. Chit Chatting with the nurses during clinicals and telling them how much your school SUCKS!
13. Using the hospital computer to look at records of interesting people in the hospital that you are not assigned to.
14. During clinicals you confronting one of your fellow classmates and trying to start a fight in the parking lot. They charge you with intimidation and the school decides for their safety you can not come back to school until the person you intimidated graduates.
15. Your freshman year you get a new clinical patient and you tell her you can't turn and reposition her because she is too heavy and there is not enough staff there to move her rear and the patient turns out to be a Senior Instructor that has cancer and is too weak to take care of herself. She did make a full recovery and you were remembered.
These are just a few of the things I witnessed when I was in school that got people removed from school.