Student caught stealing....

Nurses General Nursing

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Would you press criminal charges if one of your students took money from your wallet? The student has been expelled from the program but has not returned the money If I press charges theres a chance I could get my money back and hopefully she would be prevented from applying to another nursing school... Just looking for opinions. Thanks!

Interesting for me watching how it has been almost unanimous amongst the responders - who all appear to be from the USA - that this young woman deserves a harsh punitive response. There have been precious few posters who have shown mercy, compassion, a lack of self-righteousness, some kind of demonstration that there might be extenuating circumstances etc.... what is shocking to me, as a mental health professional from another country, is:

1) how overwhelming your reverence for the "almighty dollar" appears to be - for the loss of $114 a career is to be lost (and I am not interested in hearing about how dangerous she is to patient safety - that's a furphy to justify your "cut off her hands" responses)

2) what is such an indecisive person doing in such an important position of authority to be coming onto a gossipy site like this to ask how to behave in such a weighty matter? The OP would perhaps benefit from some quiet reflection and some stand-up-and-be-counted decision-making of your own. Use this as an opportunity to grow as a teacher and supervisor: think through the issues yourself and then advise/discuss the matter with your own supervisor

And what is one who is chastising us greedy, indecisive, and mean spirited/hearted people for being so judgmental, doing on here judging the OP and the rest of us that have chimed in w/our opinion?

press charges?

Most Definitely.

Specializes in Psych ICU, addictions.
Interesting for me watching how it has been almost unanimous amongst the responders - who all appear to be from the USA - that this young woman deserves a harsh punitive response. There have been precious few posters who have shown mercy, compassion, a lack of self-righteousness, some kind of demonstration that there might be extenuating circumstances etc...what is shocking to me, as a mental health professional from another country, is:

While I respect your point of view, I have to wonder if your attitude and response to the matter would still be the same had you been the victim of the theft.

Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't....and I honestly hope you never have to find that out the hard way. But as one mental health professional to another, perhaps that is something you should self-assess.

Specializes in Med/Surg.
Interesting for me watching how it has been almost unanimous amongst the responders - who all appear to be from the USA - that this young woman deserves a harsh punitive response. There have been precious few posters who have shown mercy, compassion, a lack of self-righteousness, some kind of demonstration that there might be extenuating circumstances etc.... what is shocking to me, as a mental health professional from another country, is:

1) how overwhelming your reverence for the "almighty dollar" appears to be - for the loss of $114 a career is to be lost (and I am not interested in hearing about how dangerous she is to patient safety - that's a furphy to justify your "cut off her hands" responses)

2) what is such an indecisive person doing in such an important position of authority to be coming onto a gossipy site like this to ask how to behave in such a weighty matter? The OP would perhaps benefit from some quiet reflection and some stand-up-and-be-counted decision-making of your own. Use this as an opportunity to grow as a teacher and supervisor: think through the issues yourself and then advise/discuss the matter with your own supervisor

It isn't about the "almighty dollar"....it happens to be money that this person stole. What if, say, the OP had jewelry in her purse (not just expensive but that also has sentimental value), and this student took that? That would be no different.

I think the question in general is wrong, though, it is not up to the OP to "press charges," that would be up to the DA. All the OP can do is bring the issue to the police and file a report. "Pressing charges" is out of her hands. You can't insist on it being done, and this wouldn't be a case where it's mandatory by law (as it is in the case of things like domestic abuse, where they press charges even if the victim DOESN'T want them to).

To address another issue brought up, I also do not agree that expulsion from nursing school is enough. What, then, happens to a person that isn't in nursing school to be expelled from? Do THEY then have to deal with the law? Why is THIS student different?

I think the terminology of "diverting care/time" from patients is a little extreme......I know what was meant by it, but let's ALSO not make it too much more than it already is. The entire situation is already bad enough.

is the student getting off scott-free though? she has publicly embarrassed herself, is subject to discharge from her nursing program (which will probably be the case) and has to live with herself and her poor behavior. sounds horrible to me.

Some people have no self-regulation, no shame, and no switch that turns on when needed to make them feel embarrassed. Some people absolutely need to be policed and disciplined, simply because they are unable to do it. Furthermore, it's beenshown that criminals, whether committing robbery, larceny, rape, murder, etc will become more and more brazen. They will not stop, they will raise the bar, so to speak, and continue their crimes, exponentially increasing the severity of their crimes, until they are stopped. Case in point, the OP's student. First iot was $20, then $94. What would have been the next amount? If the thief wasn't caught, whom would she steal from next and how much better will her skills become? Most people that are criminals have a sense of derision and sneer at their victims, because they got away with their crime and feel superior. If the OP does not file on Mon this thief will be even smarter, more superior, and ready to hit the next person, firmly believing they got away with it and they will again. I believe in giving young people a second chance when they make really stupid choices....Sometimes even immature adults......But when their criminal behavior is shown as a pattern with extenuating circumstances? Absolutely not....

Forgive me, but which state's criminal law statute are you quoting from? I don't think I ever recall a concept of criminal forgiveness given concurrent expulsion from nursing school; at least, not in this (United States) civilized society of laws.

For those that wish to let her go, then fine, let her go. Just be forewarned however, that such selective application of criminal law sets dangerous precedent. The next criminal encounter then may demand to be treated equally, as will all who commit such crimes. In essence, be really careful what you wish for. :uhoh3:

We talk here about the pursuit of criminal charges as if that's the most horrific choice that we can make in regards to the suspect. I would like to remind people that in some places around the world, she might have her hand amputated; in others, she may be shot. Insofar as treatment of criminals, American jurisprudence is decidedly rather mild in comparison. Being processed as a criminal would at least ensure that she is forever denied opportunity to be placed into a social position of trust. For one with such a demonstrably untrustworthy character, I don't view that as such a bad thing at all.

If you read my post, you will see that I was not quoting anything.

Criminal law is enforced selectively. Deputy district attorneys decide every day whether or not to file charges. Often, they decide not to, in "the interest of justice."

This is a petty theft case based on circumstantial evidence and an inadmissible admission of guilt. Good luck.

Specializes in Telemetry, EKG interpretation, ICU/CCU.
Some people have no self-regulation, no shame, and no switch that turns on when needed to make them feel embarrassed. Some people absolutely need to be policed and disciplined, simply because they are unable to do it. Furthermore, it's beenshown that criminals, whether committing robbery, larceny, rape, murder, etc will become more and more brazen. They will not stop, they will raise the bar, so to speak, and continue their crimes, exponentially increasing the severity of their crimes, until they are stopped. Case in point, the OP's student. First iot was $20, then $94. What would have been the next amount? If the thief wasn't caught, whom would she steal from next and how much better will her skills become? Most people that are criminals have a sense of derision and sneer at their victims, because they got away with their crime and feel superior. If the OP does not file on Mon this thief will be even smarter, more superior, and ready to hit the next person, firmly believing they got away with it and they will again. I believe in giving young people a second chance when they make really stupid choices....Sometimes even immature adults......But when their criminal behavior is shown as a pattern with extenuating circumstances? Absolutely not....

i completely agree with you, i'm afraid we'd be making an assumption though in thinking that she feels no shame. who knows?!?!?!

Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.

Louise, you are totally right. We are assuming that she is feeling no shame. The fact that she has not yet contacted her instructor with the promised apology could be taken one of two ways: either she does not care enough to pick up the phone or she is WAAAYYY to embarrassed to speak to her instructor. My guess is the latter since she did everything she could to avoid being caught. But who knows.

OP, you have gotten quite a few responses from your post. Thank you for sharing your concerns and leading us to a frank and colorful discussion. I enjoy hearing the opinions of others on this forum. Please keep us updated on the outcome.

Specializes in Telemetry, EKG interpretation, ICU/CCU.
THEN SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE STOLEN! The things you have listed are consequences. Yes, she does have to live with it. Maybe this will be a deterrent for her in the future, but from what the OP is stating, the student sounds like she has exhibited some sketchy behavior prior to this incident. Her behaviors surrounding this incident were inexcusable. The fact that this student watched a housekeeper go home pending further investigation KNOWING that she was the guilty party speaks volumes as to her total lack of integrity. Can you imagine what kind of conversation ensued when the housekeeper came home unexpectedly from work? What kind of effect did that have on the housekeeper? "Hey honey. I got sent home early because someone thinks that I stole money from a nursing instructor's purse. No, I didn't do it. No REALLY-I didn't."

Now THAT sounds horrible to ME.

so the housekeeper has grounds to sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

i completely agree with you, i'm afraid we'd be making an assumption though in thinking that she feels no shame. who knows?!?!?!

You're right in that we do not know her level of "shame" though by her actions, she has a very low ability to show any, nor learn anything from her previous actions independently....Sometimes we are forced to judge someone by their actions even though we really don't have the right to do so....That is how we live and thrive/prosper in most cases --by judging....Everyone and everything around us; whether it be harshly or with benevolence.

From her actions and what has been told to us by the OP, I say she should be reported to the authorities.

so the housekeeper has grounds to sue for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

That could possibly happen...But then again you could sue someone for bodily injury/low level assault/emotional distress because they sneezed on you....

Specializes in Trauma Surgery, Nursing Management.
Some people have no self-regulation, no shame, and no switch that turns on when needed to make them feel embarrassed. Some people absolutely need to be policed and disciplined, simply because they are unable to do it. Furthermore, it's beenshown that criminals, whether committing robbery, larceny, rape, murder, etc will become more and more brazen. They will not stop, they will raise the bar, so to speak, and continue their crimes, exponentially increasing the severity of their crimes, until they are stopped. Case in point, the OP's student. First iot was $20, then $94. What would have been the next amount? If the thief wasn't caught, whom would she steal from next and how much better will her skills become? Most people that are criminals have a sense of derision and sneer at their victims, because they got away with their crime and feel superior. If the OP does not file on Mon this thief will be even smarter, more superior, and ready to hit the next person, firmly believing they got away with it and they will again. I believe in giving young people a second chance when they make really stupid choices....Sometimes even immature adults......But when their criminal behavior is shown as a pattern with extenuating circumstances? Absolutely not....

You know Green, that is exactly what I was thinking when I read all of the OP's posts. A "slippery slide" if you will, is absolutely a factor in criminal behavior. Like you, I also believe in giving second chances. Apparently this student WAS granted a second chance since she failed out of her previous nursing program. This fact gives weight to the argument that the student should NOT get a third shot at nursing school. She should have been doing everything in her power to take that second chance and succeed. She consciously and purposefully put herself in a bad position. She made her own bed.

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