Strange experience yesterday, feedback please...

Published

First, I didn't get into any difficulty or trouble. Phew. LOL. But this experience has me a bit baffled...

I'm a second semester student, doing a med/surg rotation on a trauma/neuro floor. I am utterly loving it...it can get really hairy, but hey, that's all right. Yesterday was one of those hairy days, though...and I ended up getting 'talked to' by my instructor.

I had two patients, both who discharged before I got on the floor. So I picked up two more, and then ended up giving one to another student. So then I got a third, who was comfort care/DNR/DNI. His family was there, and I did my assessment and charted. While I was charting, the fire alarm went off...and locked down the elevators.

No big deal, right? Except, it was during shift change, and half of the student nurses were downstairs taking a break, half the RNs were trying to get up to the floor, and the RNs on the floor were off-floor, waiting to give report to their replacements who were stuck downstairs. Our instructor was downstairs, too...and he doesn't have a cell phone. :o

So this one patient had both her regular nurse going off shift, and her student nurse was on break. This patient was reporting 10/10 of pain, and I was one of three SNs on the floor (we normally have 9). I chased down her RN(literally...quite literally), and told the RN. Who looked at me, said "well, I want to go home. I'll let the other RN deal with it." The other RN was NOT on the floor, but this RN was not going to even check the chart for PRNs for the patient. And since she wasn't my patient, I had no real idea what was going on. I grabbed the chart, looked at what was up (chest tube placement this afternoon, only motrin given 4 hours earlier, mets Ca brain/lung), and there was no order for anything stronger than motrin.

Long story short, I went to the RN again, asked what I could do, and she just told me again "I'm going home. Let the next RN deal with it." I'm sorry; the patient is in incredible pain, crying, muscle guarding, grimacing, praying out loud to die, freaking her kids...and my instructor and her SN were stuck downstairs, her RN wants to go home...so after checking my two patients, I went to the charge nurse.

I explained what was going on (she was also stuck because of the fire alarm), and told her I can't take phone orders. She said to page the Dr. on call, explain what was happening, that I was an SN, and that I couldn't do phone orders...and see what the Dr. said. Well, I did it, and the Dr. was on the floor (but another wing), and came right over to get the order written so we had something we could give. All this time, I'm back and forth to the pt's room, asking her to hang on, I was working on the meds, just hang tight, and reassuring her children that I was working on things as fast as I could. Ended up having an NA walk the order to the pharmacy because our fax machine was down...and about 20 minutes later, the meds were in the pyxis. The fire alarm had ended, elevators were working again, my instructor came back to the whirlwind, and I had him let me into the pyxis and we got the meds into the pt and 30 minutes later she was reporting 2/10. YAY. I gave report to the new RN, and filled in the SN as to what had happened, and went back to my pts (who were all just fine...).

After our shift ended, my instructor asked if he could talk to me. He wanted to know what the heck had happened that I was med-passing to a patient who wasn't mine, how come I'd called the Dr for an order, et cetera. I explained everything to him, and asked if I was in trouble.

He looked at me and said "you're doing what we are teaching you to do...patients are first, their comfort is priority, and I would've done the same thing." I was relieved...but then he said "but the problem is, you have to let the RN go home when it's time...they look unorganized if they work unauthorized overtime, and we are a 24-hour hospital, and the new RN should've done it." I reiterated the issues (fire alarm, people stuck up and down stairs, et cetera), and he said "no, you did the right thing...I would've done the same. But just be cautious about that in the future; you don't want the RNs to look bad for not getting things done in time."

Like I said, it was strange...I completely get his feedback, I understand the rationale. But I also had a patient in 10/10, whose nurse was not willing to do anything even though she was stuck upstairs during a fire alarm, and didn't even want to start the process of getting meds for the pt. because she wanted to go home. My instructor did say "if I had been up here, what would you have done?" and I told him "of course I'd've gone to you, but since you weren't, I went to the charge nurse." He then asked what I'd've done if the charge nurse had said to wait and relax, and I said I'd've just waited and relaxed...but the charge nurse told me what to say to the Dr., so I was able to adhere to the SN status and issues, as well as take care of the issue at hand.

Again, I got into no trouble...and my patient and her family were so appreciative. Even said something to our instructor about how caring I was. So again, no problems, but definitely strange.

What would you have done, and what is your opinion about what I did? I am wondering if I indeed overstepped a boundary, but my instructor assured me I hadn't and that he'd've done the same thing...but it was just...strange.

As a final note, my patients were all doing well during this time, so no worries that I had ignored their needs. And the other SN didn't have any problems with me helping while she was on break.

Just interested in your feedback. Thanks in advance...

Best-

Lovin' Learning

Specializes in Medical/Oncology, Family Practice.

in regards to the post where the staff could only get out on the roof or the ground floor- In Chicago a few years ago there was a big fire where people died because they could not escape onto other floors to get to other fire exits- since then many of the college dorms have removed their lock stairwells. This is definitely a fire hazard if the fire ends up blocking the staircase and people cannot go further down but cannot get out!

I just wanted to update the thread...

Spring break, and that rotation has been successfully completed. I had my evals by my professor, and nowhere on the evaluation was any comment about this incident whatsoever. He did say that I took initiative, and that I was able to manage patients' needs effectively, but other than that, there wasn't even a hint that this occurred.

YAYAYAY! Now, on to Peds and OB...only 9 weeks left for second semester, and I even managed to pull off a B in pharmacology!

Thanks again for all the support...I appreciate it a lot.

Best-

Lovin' Learning

If you want to have good relationships with the people you work with you might want to re-think that.

It also involves the hospital's liability insurance coverage. Worst case scenario (that's not what happened here) is that something goes wrong, the patient ends up getting injured, sues, the hospital hasn't got a leg to stand on, everybody looses and the patient goes home with a big payday.

You guys need to remember that before you went to clinicals you were told the rules that you had to follow. Please remember that when you are in training to be RNs you are also in training to be future leaders. Leaders have responsibility not only to the patients they care for, but also to the employers and other employees they work for. If you don't follow rules and procedures and it leads to a facility failing there will be no place for you to do your fine nursing care. Contrary to what you may believe, rules were not made to be broken.

I don't understand. I'm only a wannabe student, not even accepted yet (if I even do get accepted), so I don't know the rules and so forth. I understand there has to be a procedure to follow and chain of command. BUT speaking as a potential patient, I'd hate to think I wouldn't get care I needed because the off-going RN didn't want to deal with me anymore and the incoming RN couldn't get on my floor so that was that for however long it takes to get the problem (fire drill) resolved. All because toes must not be stepped on.

Again, not knowing anything about the rules, I can't understand why the charge nurse didn't take care of it herself. If having the OP call the doctor was such a big faux pas, well...the charge nurse is the one who made that call really. The only thing I can think of is for the OP to have said she's not allowed to call the doctor without her instructor.

A student is not an employee. That is the concern here. It is a legal issue. Once upon a time nursing students ran the hospitals like staff. Now they are guests in the facility, being "allowed" to experience learning there. The only thing a student is obigated to do beyond his or her patient assignment is inform people who are in a position to make decisions, starting with the instructor. Even patients who are assigned to a student are also assigned to a nurse. That nurse has ultimate responsibility for the patient. Students are not in a position of independent action and judgement.

As guests in a facility, you may also have no idea what written and unwritten rules are in place. The day to day flow of work involves complex mechanisms and interactions that depend on everyone doing things in a certain way. Some things you may not agree with, and sometimes they do not benefit the patient, but there is always a way to do things that is "How we do them here". This might include NO OVERTIME, EVER. Believe me, you can get disciplined for overtime, no matter what the reason was. I have seen it happen.

I do not think you overstepped your bounds. I think you did a great job. At least someone had concern for the patient's pain level!!! I have to ask also.........what happened to stairs? Elevators are not the only way to the floor! I do not understand the RN's attitude that said she had to go home. Different area, things may be different in that particular facility, but it makes sense to me that if other RN's were off the floor do to a fire alarms.........was there a fire? ..........was it a drill? No matter, nurse need to be on the floor, that was an emergency situation or was to be practiced as a emergency situation...........and the RN was going home?

As others have said, welcome to nursing! Kudos to you for being concerned about a patient's 10/10 pain!

In my nurse mind.........the patient comes first! And that is what you did. YOu followed the chain of command as much as you were able under the circumstances. The doctor was called, you did not take an order that you were ot allowed to take. Continue your thought process as a nurse!!

First, I didn't get into any difficulty or trouble. Phew. LOL. But this experience has me a bit baffled...

I'm a second semester student, doing a med/surg rotation on a trauma/neuro floor. I am utterly loving it...it can get really hairy, but hey, that's all right. Yesterday was one of those hairy days, though...and I ended up getting 'talked to' by my instructor.

I had two patients, both who discharged before I got on the floor. So I picked up two more, and then ended up giving one to another student. So then I got a third, who was comfort care/DNR/DNI. His family was there, and I did my assessment and charted. While I was charting, the fire alarm went off...and locked down the elevators.

No big deal, right? Except, it was during shift change, and half of the student nurses were downstairs taking a break, half the RNs were trying to get up to the floor, and the RNs on the floor were off-floor, waiting to give report to their replacements who were stuck downstairs. Our instructor was downstairs, too...and he doesn't have a cell phone. :o

So this one patient had both her regular nurse going off shift, and her student nurse was on break. This patient was reporting 10/10 of pain, and I was one of three SNs on the floor (we normally have 9). I chased down her RN(literally...quite literally), and told the RN. Who looked at me, said "well, I want to go home. I'll let the other RN deal with it." The other RN was NOT on the floor, but this RN was not going to even check the chart for PRNs for the patient. And since she wasn't my patient, I had no real idea what was going on. I grabbed the chart, looked at what was up (chest tube placement this afternoon, only motrin given 4 hours earlier, mets Ca brain/lung), and there was no order for anything stronger than motrin.

Long story short, I went to the RN again, asked what I could do, and she just told me again "I'm going home. Let the next RN deal with it." I'm sorry; the patient is in incredible pain, crying, muscle guarding, grimacing, praying out loud to die, freaking her kids...and my instructor and her SN were stuck downstairs, her RN wants to go home...so after checking my two patients, I went to the charge nurse.

I explained what was going on (she was also stuck because of the fire alarm), and told her I can't take phone orders. She said to page the Dr. on call, explain what was happening, that I was an SN, and that I couldn't do phone orders...and see what the Dr. said. Well, I did it, and the Dr. was on the floor (but another wing), and came right over to get the order written so we had something we could give. All this time, I'm back and forth to the pt's room, asking her to hang on, I was working on the meds, just hang tight, and reassuring her children that I was working on things as fast as I could. Ended up having an NA walk the order to the pharmacy because our fax machine was down...and about 20 minutes later, the meds were in the pyxis. The fire alarm had ended, elevators were working again, my instructor came back to the whirlwind, and I had him let me into the pyxis and we got the meds into the pt and 30 minutes later she was reporting 2/10. YAY. I gave report to the new RN, and filled in the SN as to what had happened, and went back to my pts (who were all just fine...).

After our shift ended, my instructor asked if he could talk to me. He wanted to know what the heck had happened that I was med-passing to a patient who wasn't mine, how come I'd called the Dr for an order, et cetera. I explained everything to him, and asked if I was in trouble.

He looked at me and said "you're doing what we are teaching you to do...patients are first, their comfort is priority, and I would've done the same thing." I was relieved...but then he said "but the problem is, you have to let the RN go home when it's time...they look unorganized if they work unauthorized overtime, and we are a 24-hour hospital, and the new RN should've done it." I reiterated the issues (fire alarm, people stuck up and down stairs, et cetera), and he said "no, you did the right thing...I would've done the same. But just be cautious about that in the future; you don't want the RNs to look bad for not getting things done in time."

Like I said, it was strange...I completely get his feedback, I understand the rationale. But I also had a patient in 10/10, whose nurse was not willing to do anything even though she was stuck upstairs during a fire alarm, and didn't even want to start the process of getting meds for the pt. because she wanted to go home. My instructor did say "if I had been up here, what would you have done?" and I told him "of course I'd've gone to you, but since you weren't, I went to the charge nurse." He then asked what I'd've done if the charge nurse had said to wait and relax, and I said I'd've just waited and relaxed...but the charge nurse told me what to say to the Dr., so I was able to adhere to the SN status and issues, as well as take care of the issue at hand.

Again, I got into no trouble...and my patient and her family were so appreciative. Even said something to our instructor about how caring I was. So again, no problems, but definitely strange.

What would you have done, and what is your opinion about what I did? I am wondering if I indeed overstepped a boundary, but my instructor assured me I hadn't and that he'd've done the same thing...but it was just...strange.

As a final note, my patients were all doing well during this time, so no worries that I had ignored their needs. And the other SN didn't have any problems with me helping while she was on break.

Just interested in your feedback. Thanks in advance...

Best-

Lovin' Learning

Based on everything you described, I think you did an EXCELLENT job. I imagine that I probably would have done precisely the same things that you did.

I'm not sure I see what, if anything, you actually did wrong. From the way you describe, you were not "stopping the RN from going home" - you were simply providing her with information about this patient.

It's interesting, btw, that this nurse's response was "I'll let the new RN deal with it". I wonder what your nursing instructor would have thought if you had said "Well, this isn't my patient, so I'll this let patient's student nurse deal with it." I'm not saying the outgoing-shift nurse was saying or doing anything wrong by any means, but still.

I'm also wondering if by chance the doctor didn't pull either your instructor and/or the charge nurse aside and ask "Why did you have a student - who cannot take phone orders - page me?" Your instructor and/or the charge nurse may have then felt a bit embarassed, and hence in the heat of the moment your instructor pulled you aside and said what he said to you. Which, if so, I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong here; it's just that some petty emotions flared up a bit, and you happened to get caught in the crossfire.

I imagine that if you had NOT taken the actions that you did, you could have just as easily been pulled aside and reprimanded for not having done enough. And that kind of reprimand may have been even worse of an unloading on you.

I'm also wondering why the new staff didn't simply take the stairs.

In any event, what if, hypothetically, this patient coded and died? Would you have been held responsible for anything in court? I doubt it, based on your actions. The hospital, though, probably would have been in SERIOUS trouble, esp since you had done them the silly inconvenience of actually alerting them to a problem with one of the patients. Whereas, had you NOT spoken up, the hospital probably could have legitimately claimed that they were not aware of the patient's status and/or unable to adequately address it, and hence they would be off the hook. The result of THAT would have probably been good for the hospital...probably not so good for the patient and family, though.

I think you did all you could. I honestly can't imagine what else you could have possibly done. I'm just a student like you, so maybe I'm missing something here, but at the very least I simply can't imagine you "relaxing" or simply doing nothing in a situation like this would fly over well on a test question.

I understand that as a SN you are not an employee, and there was probably a world of finer legal concerns at work here. But the thing is, you went to people who WERE employees (nurse, charge nurse, etc.) and you complied with what they asked you to do.

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
i believe that accessing the floor thru the stairwell was contraindicated by the fire drill/alarm.....need to have all doors shut....

What made you think it was a "drill"? No one seems to have responded correctly to the fire alarm except those who stayed downstairs (and hopefully marched outside to a safe distance). It was your instructor's reponsibility to inform you about the facility's protocol when the fire alarm goes on, before you enter the premises. Was any location mentioned overhead? If not, it wasn't a drill, as drills do say where the "fire" is, so doors are closed that lead there. In a real fire situation, people forget to announce that.

When drills are planned, the fire department is informed, and arrives on scene with sirens blasting. Did that not happen? Wow, JCAHO would love to know the response there, to a fire alarm!

All patient room doors to the hall, and doors to adjacent hallways need to be closed when the fire alarm sounds, immediately.

The nurse responsible for the patient in pain should be disciplined for her bad attitude and the mistaken idea

that she could leave her unit at the end of her shift to go home, when a fire alarm is going. No one is allowed to go off duty as usual, in that circumstance. It seems that everyone, including the doctor was unaware of safety protocol. Booooooooo! What if the patients had to be evacuated?

It was nice that you and that doctor were concerned about relieving the patient's pain, but there should have been an order in place upon that patient's admission, covered by the care plan. Someone chose to think that metastatic cancer pain could be relieved by motrin, and didn't leave a supplemental PRN order. If hospice services were in place, that patient would have been home and loaded with narcotics.........unless treatments in hospital were needed.

Lovin Learnin-

I would have done just what you did. And if anyone doesn't like it- too darn bad.

Good for you! You followed the chain of command as best as you were able under the circumstances, and if I were you I wouldn't worry about Ms. Thang Nurse (off-going employee) and her bruised ego. She was in the wrong. The system sounds pretty broken if off-going employees are being encouraged to drop everything and leave no matter what to avoid overtime. A dying patient in that much pain IS A PRIORITY, as is a code. However, the admitting physician was also REALLY in the wrong by not including orders FOR strong pain meds for a dying cancer patient upon admission. So the blame really lies there, I think. He/she needs to be slapped upside the head.

Getting along with and respecting one's coworkers is important, but not at the expense of patient well-being. I'm not there to be liked by Ms. Thang nurse. I'm there to do my job and take care of my patients. Chances are good Ms. Thang nurse and I will NOT be buddies, but that's ok. I probably wouldn't outright confront her and tell her what I think, but I'd be pretty assertive about asking why she felt it wasn't a priority, because as an employee that has been there longer than I have she deserves respect, and she may have a good reason I hadn't thought of. But I'd have done what you did, in the end. You learned a couple of important lessons: Thinking outside the box can go a long way to helping a patient, and now you know where you DON'T want to work when you graduate. Time well spent.

I'm not a student yet, I start in September. But, I've been a patient and seems to me you are the kind of nurse I would want around me and I think your actions were brave and personify what a nurse should be - caring. I wouldn't want that particular staff nurse near me again. I understand the implications of what happened but regardless, I think someone needed to take charge and alleviate this patient's pain. Sadly, it was not the person who should have been on top of this. I hope I never get that jaded.

I HAVE ONLY ONE THING TO SAY...."WELCOME TO NURSING"'

You just experienced the firs day of the rest of your life. Enjoy.

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