States that do NOT require CEU's for renewal...

WashYaHands · Jan 21, 2003

I spoke with a woman who sat on our board of nursing and this is how she explained it. Verifying CEU's for more that 40,000 nurses in a state takes a lot of manpower and paperwork and this costs money. Since nursing registration fees are the source of income for the BON, this equates into higher registration fees. Rather than charge nurses astronomical registration fees, our BON decided to do away with CEU's to keep the cost down. Also, they believe that nurses are professionals. As professionals we should be seeking out continuing education opportunities on our own to enhance individual practice. The BON felt (based on research) that many nurses will acquire CEU's whether or not the BON mandates it, so they didnt feel the need to micro manage this activity. In addition, most major hospitals require CEU's for employment, so monitoring CEU credits at two levels was unnecessary.

Linda

Sally_ICURN · Jan 21, 2003

Thanks for the replies to my post. I never really had any doubt that nurses who's states do not require CE's do conscientiously seek learning opportunities to add to their repertoire of knowledge. And the more I think about it, the more I think of the nurses that I know who wait until the last minute before their license is due for renewal and sign up for the most convenient or uncomplicated class just to get the units required.

Maybe it's better to give nurses the freedom, without the pressure of licensure, to advance their knowledge in areas that truely interest them? But how does our profession document this important aspect of nursing's professional contribution to healthcare if it's not kept track of by our BON's?

Perhaps continuing ed. is one thing that should be universal about nursing. After all, in the ANA's "Nursing's Code of Ethics," #5 states: The nurse maintains competence in nursing, and #7 states: The nurse participates in activities that contribute to the ongoing development of the profession's body of knowledge. And then there's the "ACN Nurses Code for Nurses" that states: The nurse carries personal responsibility for nursing practice and for maintaining competence by continual learning, and The nurse is active in developing a core of professional knowledge. How do we prove that we do these things? To be taken seriously, shouldn't we be uniform in the enforcement of our codes of ethics? I think it makes us look a little wishy-washy in a professional's world. Physician's and I think even Pharmacists are required to prove continuing education. I think nurses should be as well.

Never thought about this before. Thanks for the thought-provoking subject even though I'm sure this thread started out being just a simple question! I didn't mean to complicate it! :saint:

~Sally :cool:

cindyln · Jan 21, 2003

Not all hospitals pay for CEU's or give you the paid time off to obtain them. MY hospital does neither. That is why when it came down to renewing my kansas or virginia license I chose to renew the virginia because they do not require CEU's. I still get some but have to do so at my own expense and time.

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 21, 2003

There is very little valid scientific evidence (if any) that shows that mandatory CEU's improve the quality of nursing practice within a state. The best nurses will continue to learn, grow, keep-up-to-date, etc. whether or not the law requires class attendance or not. Bad nurses can sign up for classes and "sleep" in the back of the class and not learn a thing even though they have paid for lots of CEU's.

There is also a lot of controversy about what types of programs qualify as legitimate CEU offerings. In states with mandatory CEU's, it can be a big money-making business to provide classes that may or may not be of good quality and/or relevant to practice. For example, should someone be allowed to count something totally unrelated to his/her actual practice? If you answer, "yes," then how can that be justified as an expense required by the law? If you answer, "no," then how is that going to be policed?

For such reasons, a lot of states can't justify having a requirement that people attend a certain number of classes that may or may not help their practice ... and some states who used to require CEU's no longer do so. The key word is "require." For the state to make it mandatory, there should be a compelling reason to do so along with compelling evidence that it is necessary.

llg

obeyacts2 · Jan 21, 2003

I think the idea of some states not requiring CEUs is scary. Sure, the reputable facilities will require them of thier employees, but what about the LTC or "troubled" facility that is just looking for warm bodies to cover their floors? Medicine changes by the minute, and it takes alot to keep up.

Laura

Stargazer · Jan 21, 2003

Well, as llg and Sally pointed out above, you can lead a horse--er, nurse, to a CE class, but you can't make them learn. There has to be an element of personal responsibility there. And FWIW, the last class I went to was a complete waste of an entire day and $65 registration--I didn't learn a thing or accomplish any of my objectives for taking the course, and it was taught by 2 professional authors/speakers. Very disappointing.

nursedawn67, LPN · Jan 21, 2003

MI requires 25 ceu's in a 2 year period.

MomNRN, BSN, RN · Jan 21, 2003

Although it is solely my responsibility to keep current since Illinois doesn't require CEU's for license renewal, it is sometimes difficult. I am a school nurse and class fees are not always in the budget. I also may sometimes be required to use my personal time to attend and pay any extra fees required that the budget won't cover. If there is a class that is tempting enough, I am willing to give up my own cash for my own personal growth, but I am not willing to give up my personal days off. They are way too limited as it is.

chartleypj · Jan 21, 2003

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
Part of being a professional is maintaining or furthering one's knowledge base which in turn furthers the profession's body of knowledge.
Sally,
I'm with you; I'm amazed that so many states haven't this requirement. In Ma, we need 15 contact hours every 2 years. As a certified nurse in the OR (CNOR), I am also required to collect 150 contact hours over 5 years.
Paula

night owl · Jan 22, 2003

In NJ, my place of employment requires 40hrs of CEU's per year which are given as inservices or modular type. They will also provide transportation to another facility for CEU's if enough people register for it. It doesn't have anything to do with renewing our licenses, but the fact that the CEU's are learning opportunities which keeps you on top with the latest trends.

KaroSnowQueen, RN · Jan 22, 2003

I am licensed in KY and IN. IN does not require them, and any you get are on your own time and money. KY does require them and it's the same at any place there I've worked, my time, my money. AND the thing that bites me is you don't have to turn in any proof that you actually got the stupid things, you just get the certificates, and presumably they audit so many people per year, otherwise yes, you get the learning, which is good, but those papers never ever go to the BON.

So what I want to know is WHY the requirement if they don't make sure everyone gets them?????????????????????? :confused:

deespoohbear · Jan 22, 2003

I do stay up-to-date with my nursing, even though I don't attend many conferences/seminars or whatever. I search the internet, subscribe to a couple of nursing journals, and research stuff on my own time. I love to learn but I enjoy being able to do it at my own pace. I work with a couple of nurses who are really into conferences and seminars and are very book smart, but really lack the judgement and skills that a bedside nurse needs...I feel like my employer already gives me enough grief about what I have to do, how to do it, and when to do it....I enjoy the freedom of learning at my pace....