Some questions for all the nurses

mattsmom81 · Jul 20, 2002

Come on over, Grace! We'd LOVE to have ya!

nursecheryl · Jul 20, 2002

I agree with cheerfuldoer. I'm working on my BSN but do not feel that having a BSN makes you any better than a diploma or ADN. If you do more with your BSN than you deserve more money, but if you work at the same place doing the same job it dosen't make sence. Most places I have worked I have made the same amount of money as other nurses with higher degrees and same experience. One place they paid .50 cents more per hour and called a nurse with BSN a clinical nurse. If you with a diploma or ADN did a research project related to the unit you worked and became a resource person in this area teaching it to other nurses you became recognized as a clinical nurse in title and in pay. Most of us did do this to get the higher title. It was great experience. The hospital also gave you classes to prepare you in how to do research and set up forums. It was fun and a great experience.

WalMart_ADN · Jul 20, 2002

I'm going through my orientation for my first job out of nursing school right now. It's a large teaching hospital, and a lot of the girls i'm orienting with just graduated from the school of nursing affiliated with the hospital. some of them are SO STUCK UP....they don't refer to themselves as NURSE they refer to themselves as BACHOLER DEGREE NURSES....it's all i can do to keep from saying

"HI....we are preparing to take the SAME state board exam, we are making the SAME amount of money at the SAME hospital...yet I went to school for 2 less years, graduated with NO student loans.... who appears to be smarter now?" just to see what they would say.

WHY DOES IT MATTER?!?!?? okay, i can see it mattering when you are in a charge/management/preceptorship position, BUT WHY DOES IT MATTER WHEN YOU ARE JUST STARTING?!?!?

grrrrrr

NurseLKY · Jul 20, 2002

i was in a BSN program and decided to leave and get my LPN. I was going no where. The school kept adding classes and even though I had already put in 2 years i had a good 3 more to go. At this school they don't even have clinicals until the end of your 3rd year. You can be the smartest person in your class but if you don't have a clue what you are doing at the bedside you mine as well go home. I agree with mattsmom81. Some of these BSN nurses don't have a clue about bedside nursing. They can tell you all about a certian diease process and thats it. Some of the best nurses I work with are LPN's, dipolma nurses, or ADN's. To tell you the truth I bet the average person doesn't care if you are a LPN, dipolma nurse, ADN, BSN, or MSN. They just want the best care for themselves or their loved ones. Just get over the letters and do your job. And that's helping people get back on their feet after an illness or injury.

mattsmom81 · Jul 20, 2002

I wouldn't oppose a $.50/hr extra for BSN prepared nurses. Hospitals often pay extra for certifications, so this would be fine with me....to compensate them for the extra year or so they spent in college.

What I object to is the elitism many of the BSN programs propogate.....in a day and age where nurses need to band together, they are splitting our ranks.

IMO, unionization is probably our best option now to bring us all to the same table to organize and negotiate, and improve our workplace and better patient care.

ceecel.dee, MSN, RN · Jul 20, 2002

Experience, level of education, performance....they ALL matter.

A nurse is a nurse is a nurse? Posted by a nurse? Oh, MY!

I get a better "once over" by my NP than by any MD I've ever seen. Is she paid the same? Why not? Education level. Is it fair, no way. Life isn't fair. If we like what we are doing, perhaps we can focus on that, rather than worrying about what's going on with anyone else. Schools are open to all, so hit the books if equalily is what's missing. Even taking a financial class can make you a better bedside nurse/hospital employee on many levels. Is that hospital based and making orienting easier on you today? No. Does it make you better in the long run? I think yes.

Dr. Kate, BSN, RN · Jul 20, 2002

"They refer to themselves as bachelor degree nurses" WalMart_ADN

Well, isn't that just too precious for words. Just think of how terribly insecure they must feel if they have to pump themselves up each and every time they speak.

The debate on education goes on and on without resolution primarily because we cannot and will not agree to talk about the same thing. My public opinion is that a nurse is a nurse. The legal opinion is a nurse is a nurse. Privately, my opinion is that the nursing should be a post baccalaureate degree, just like physicians, lawyers, and other professionals. That's the operative, not that the education is better but that it's the professional thing to do. I don't want to start anything here. All I'm saying that until nurses are educated like professionals they won't be considered professionals. The other professions started out as apprenticeship types of education. They didn't lose the apprenticeship part, they placed it after a basic college education.

(shields up, Mr. Scott)

futureccrn · Jul 21, 2002

I am a baccalaureate degree nurse. In my senior year nursing courses the professor actually told us that as BSN's we were better than the Ad's(associate degree) and the dips(diploma grads) (her words NOT MINE). I for one have never felt that way. When I started in the hospital the nurse training me who was a Diploma grad asked me what hospital I got my Diploma from. She honestly thought that because of my attitude and skill level that I was a diploma grad. She was shocked when I told her that I graduated from _University with a Bachelor's degree.

I started my nursing schooling career out at a local hospital based diploma program fresh out of high school. I "flunked out" with 6 months left to go in that program. Rather than wait a year to get back in their program, I decided to go to the local State Supported University for my Bachelor's degree. I had considered attending the local private Catholic Universities ADN program but after figuring out what it would cost me in tuition money, it turned out to be cheaper for me to attend the state university and get my 4 year degree!

Even so, there were a LOT of things that I didn't learn until I got in the hospital setting. I had only ever given a total of 4 IM injections in Nursing school, even when I was in that diploma program, I was never given much opportunity for that. I NEVER started an IV. They(my bacc. program) told us that all hospitals had an IV team so we wouldn't need to bother learning how to start one. The hospital that I work for ( for only another 6 working days, I work 3 12's a week) doesn't have one. I had to learn. Boy was that a hard skill to master. I'm still no master at IV's but I'm pretty good. I think though that my 4 year program did a good job at turning out good nurses. Just my opinion.

Level2Trauma · Jul 21, 2002

Regardless of how many times this topic comes up...the answers will always be biased. Those who have the higher degree believe, and rightly so, that they should be appropriately compensated for their education. Those who don't have a higher degree believe that "we" shouldn't be compensated for our education. I have my BSN. Am I compensated? Only by my own happiness in my accomplishment. I have two weeks left in the MSN FNP program. WIll I be compensated for the higer degree...I certainly hope so. Do I deserve it....Hell YEH.

mattsmom81 · Jul 21, 2002

This topic has been hashed out before, but for the record I would support a national mandate on BSN as entry level...grandfathering all the current ADN and Diploma nurses (I would not support forcing them to return to college)

I would support this as a way to unite nurses and make a point to hospital administrators, doctors and the public....we are professionals.

And of course nurse practitioners should get a salary boost...and I am not against an extra buck an hour for a BSN...or a specialty certification, etc...but experience should also be rewarded . Sadly, it often is not....and we see green new grads hiring on at similar rates of pay as the oldtimers which doesn't make for a lot of love.

askater11 · Jul 21, 2002

I was thinking about this subject yesterday.

More or less I was thinking if I could turn back the pages would I get an ADN or a BSN.

As someone else mentioned I didn't know the difference of ADN or BSN. (the length of studying and the benefits....I even went to a counselor prior to obtaining a nursing degree)

The counselor I seen was at a local community college. He told me point blank I'd never make it into their nursing program and FORGET getting into the local University program. There was no option in my eyes I had to go to the University. And yep I got in NO PROBLEM.

But I don't see any benefits getting your BSN. It doesn't seem like establishment (hospitals, clinics) encourage or give benefits for BSN's. Unless you want to get your Master's or a few other routes....moneywise there's no benefit of getting your BSN.

And yes I think BSN testing should pertain to all the extended stuff we learned. I was amazed it wasn't included.

And regarding this BSN VS. ADN .... the nurses I've worked with in different establishments...this was never a discussion. There are R.N.'s that are "better" and "more organized" but we never bring up the issue BSN or ADN. I really only see it on the Internet. Does everyone else see friction between nurses VS BSN and ADN in their establishment???

Dr. Kate, BSN, RN · Jul 21, 2002

I work in two different community hospitals and am aware of no friction based on academic degree held in either. In one of the facilities, there are a number of MSNs who choose to work as bedside nurses, still none of the I'm better because I have more letters after my name.

When the letters after your name impress you so much you have to make a point of them every chance you get, I call it insecurity. It's then up to me to decide how I'm going to respond. Usually, I go with amusement.