Smokers need not apply?

Nurses Professionalism

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So I've reached my 2 year mark & getting a little restless, toying with the idea of moving into a different dept or facility. I was looking at a website for another hospital & they have posted that they will no longer hire anyone that uses nicotine which will be screened for during the employment physical. Not an issue for me, but I found the bold underlined statement a little jarring. I understand that in healthcare we want to promote healthy lifestyles, but dictating personal legal habits to employees is a bit of a push don't you think? Is this common in other areas & just reaching my neck of the woods?

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Again, no one is "taking away your freedoms" or "telling you how to live your life." You have the exact same freedom to smoke that you ever have. No one is telling you you can't smoke. Some employers are simply exercising their rights to choose not to employ smokers. I fail to see the big deal.
Therein lies the problem.....tomorrow they won't employ people who wear glasses, then they won't employ people who aren't 5'10" then they won't employ diabetics, they they won't employ you if you have the genes for heart disease....they won't employ you if you use hair dye. The next thing you know you have a perfect little Utopian society of replicas......

It is a slippery slope is all I'm saying and by the time it is noticed that it is wrong...it's too late.

My MIL who lived in Leipzig Germany during WWII and was a German citizen in an enforced work camp under Hitler always spoke about complacency being the devil. A favourite quote.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a communist;

Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a socialist;

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a trade unionist;

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--

because I was not a Jew;

Then they came for me--

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

― Martin Niemöller

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I truly do not like big brother either. But in this case...it's not big brother. This is about treating the patient with respect and coworkers with respect. Smokers smell, their clothing smells and they present a risk to others they are around. Children of parents who smoke outside are still more likely to have issues not found in nonsmoking houses. This applies to our patients and coworkers. You want to smoke? Make that choice but you don't have the right to cause harm to others with it...and as smokers you do cause harm to others.

I no longer smoke......and the pollutants spewed into the air by manufacturing make cigarette smoke look like fresh air...of course... we have allowed ton of those jobs go over seas for low wages.

Make the hospital smoke free. I think it should be. I don't think it is fair that smokers leave for breaks. But to decide what I do at home that is legal to refuse employment....to me....is a slippery slope.

I have agree to disagree and I will probably not "see" this myself ... but I do worry for my children living in a restricted society in the land of the free.

I have said my piece.....I bow out gracefully

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Specializes in Med-Surg.

Esme, I have tremendous amounts of respect as a nurse and fellow AN member. You are definitely one of those who usually makes me re-read a post to really get what you are saying.

I do have to respectfully disagree though. When you talk about individual liberties, they should be the liberties of ALL individuals. And yes, the employers, bigwigs of hospitals, business owners, they deserve those same liberties. Why is it ok to force an employer to hire you, possibly at higher cost to them (higher risk for cancers, HTN, lung disease, etc, and THEN add to that extra susceptibility to infections, especially those of the respiratory tract). You have higher risk for call outs. Because a responsible nurse, if he/she had pneumonia or influenza or wtv, will not go to work and expose their co-workers and fragile patients to that.

And now with the ACA, can an employer even refuse to provide health care coverage if you are a smoker? Because let's be honest, the extra 50$ per pay period probably doesn't cover the average increased health care costs incurred by employers.

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Therein lies the problem.....tomorrow they won't employ people who wear glasses, then they won't employ people who aren't 5'10" then they won't employ diabetics, they they won't employ you if you have the genes for heart disease....they won't employ you if you use hair dye.

I've worked for plenty of hospitals that have dress codes that specify that no hair colors "not found in nature," or something along those lines, (meaning no pink, blue, green, etc., hair) are allowed. So, while I haven't encountered a healthcare employer that outright bans hair dye, there are plenty that set limits on what color employees can dye their hair. I don't hear anyone working up any righteous indignation over that. What??? Employers can set limits on what hair colors they are willing to allow employees to have??? How is that any of the employer's business, and what makes them think they have any right to dictate how their employees look at work??? That's just taking things a little too far! None of the other characteristics you list are voluntary choices on the part of the individual. Smoking (like dying one's hair) is a voluntary choice an individual makes (at some point in the process. No one is born a smoker).

We have horrendous M&M statistics in this country, and a healthcare system that costs twice as much per capita as the next most expensive system on the planet and gets worse results than any other developed nation, largely because we as a society are so unhealthy and make such poor lifestyle choices. What's so awful about starting to hold people accountable for the bad choices they make, anyway?

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Wish we had a "like 1 million times" button for this post. I only got to "like" it once.

It truly is amazing at the amount of "followers" we have in our society now. Watch out people who where glasses or contacts!!! YOU are a disgusting specimen of perfection, and WE need to put forth an image that those who take care of you are all perfect people. If you can't see perfectly, STAY HOME. Our scores will suffer if these degenerate patients see someone with imperfect vision...OK, over stated, yes. IS the notion THAT FAR off....sadly NO. So, WHO could possibly think that there is anything good that comes from this type of bullying and discrimination????

"Is the notion that far off..sadly NO."

Yes, I think your post is complete and total hyperbole and yes, THAT FAR OFF.

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Specializes in RN.
"Is the notion that far off..sadly NO."

Yes, I think your post is complete and total hyperbole and yes, THAT FAR OFF.

Believe me, I hope I am wrong...brace yourself. Maybe read a history book and stop watching the TV...

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
I've worked for plenty of hospitals that have dress codes that specify that no hair colors "not found in nature," or something along those lines, (meaning no pink, blue, green, etc., hair) are allowed. So, while I haven't encountered a healthcare employer that outright bans hair dye, there are plenty that set limits on what color employees can dye their hair. I don't hear anyone working up any righteous indignation over that. What??? Employers can set limits on what hair colors they are willing to allow employees to have??? How is that any of the employer's business, and what makes them think they have any right to dictate how their employees look at work??? That's just taking things a little too far! None of the other characteristics you list are voluntary choices on the part of the individual. Smoking (like dying one's hair) is a voluntary choice an individual makes (at some point in the process. No one is born a smoker).

We have horrendous M&M statistics in this country, and a healthcare system that costs twice as much per capita as the next most expensive system on the planet and gets worse results than any other developed nation, largely because we as a society are so unhealthy and make such poor lifestyle choices. What's so awful about starting to hold people accountable for the bad choices they make, anyway?

I get it I do.....but it is a slippery slope. Holding people accountable and punishing them are two different things. I have plenty of righteous indignation against many things....I just choose when to use my voice.

I think I had more intolerance, more indignation, more judgement of others when I wasn't ill....now that I am...I see how prejudice and assumptions unfairly hurt and seclude. I just think we need to be careful of a slippery slope....I think if we let the small stuff go by ....by the time the big stuff comes round....like refusing to hire Diabetics or actually not hiring someone because their DNA code isn 't suitable. It's too late to have a voice loud enough that matters.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
Esme, I have tremendous amounts of respect as a nurse and fellow AN member. You are definitely one of those who usually makes me re-read a post to really get what you are saying.

I do have to respectfully disagree though. When you talk about individual liberties, they should be the liberties of ALL individuals. And yes, the employers, bigwigs of hospitals, business owners, they deserve those same liberties. Why is it ok to force an employer to hire you, possibly at higher cost to them (higher risk for cancers, HTN, lung disease, etc, and THEN add to that extra susceptibility to infections, especially those of the respiratory tract). You have higher risk for call outs. Because a responsible nurse, if he/she had pneumonia or influenza or wtv, will not go to work and expose their co-workers and fragile patients to that.

And now with the ACA, can an employer even refuse to provide health care coverage if you are a smoker? Because let's be honest, the extra 50$ per pay period probably doesn't cover the average increased health care costs incurred by employers.

I hear your thoughts.....I just think it is a dangerous path the will go awry.

When you start judging who pays more or less you are discriminating with preconceived ideas...the next step will be making more pay for having a medical family history...or genetic high risk factors is the next logical step. So...... Smokers and fat people, people with tattoos and orange hair...... don't deserve the same opportunity to work?

Giving anyone that kind of power is a bad thing.

Power corrupts...Absolute power will corrupt absolutely...John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton

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Specializes in Prior military RN/current ICU RN..

Bottom line is no one owes you a job. If you owned a business would you hire someone who is 300 pounds overweight? Statistics matter and the bottom line is smokers are overall going to cost a business more money in missed work and health care costs. If smoking was shown to increase worker output and benefit the business then it would be allowed. Fairly simple. It is legal to cover yourself in pig blood and walk down the street. That doesn't mean it is smart or that you would keep your job.

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Believe me, I hope I am wrong...brace yourself. Maybe read a history book and stop watching the TV...

Again, hyperbole...

and thanks for the advice, but I have a history degree as well as a nursing one.

My Dad couldn't get a job as a fighter pilot in the service because he had to wear glasses to get to 20/20 vision. That is no longer the case anymore. Turns out corrected vision is just great!

What I would not be surprised to see is employers going after the obese for increased insurance premiums or requirements to prove health in order to avoid getting dinged for extra insurance penalties. ;)

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Smokers and fat people, people with tattoos and orange hair...... don't deserve the same opportunity to work?

Giving anyone that kind of power is a bad thing.

There are many places where the company wants to project a certain image. Neutral, clean cut, well groomed, etc. Certain jobs where the employee interfaces with the public have always had rules about things like visible tattoos and wild hair colors. That's just nothing new and hasn't developed as a matter of course from policies like not hiring smokers.

I think it's legitimate to worry that the obese may be next on the no hire list as the health costs associated with obesity are beginning to overtake the costs associated with smokers, perhaps because less people are smoking these days than in past generations, yet the obesity "epidemic" appears to be growing by leaps and bounds.

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Specializes in Prior military RN/current ICU RN..

An EMPLOYER has the right to hire and fire anyone they want. To say you have a right to have a job covered head to toe in tattoos and 80 pounds overweight is insane. You have the right to be a fat land whale and to look like the lead singer of Social Distortion..this is true and the USA proves this every time I leave the house. However the hospital has the right (you know..the same way you have the right to eat whoppers all day) to not hire you or keep you. Get it???? The stupidity in this country is mind boggling.

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