Oversupply of Nurse Practitioners

Specialties NP

Published

I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.

I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.

For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.

wayemika said:
I think this depends on the program. Some programs make sure you are ready while others seem to just be diploma mills. I know what school you attend can matter as a new grad when it comes to applying for jobs.

In regards to this, what are reputable schools? Most of them appear to be online now, even B&M. I'm debating FNP vs PMHNP. I see new urgent care centers being built on every corner. They're outpacing fast food places! However, there's a severe MD shortage and NP shortage in my state.

But back to the original question, I don't pay for-profit schools any mind so no point in addressing those. But as for the others, how do you know they're reputable? Being accredited doesn't seem to be a deciding factor nowadays as seems like most are accredited.

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NurseBlaq said:
In regards to this, what are reputable schools? Most of them appear to be online now, even B&M. I'm debating FNP vs PMHNP. I see new urgent care centers being built on every corner. They're outpacing fast food places! However, there's a severe MD shortage and NP shortage in my state.

But back to the original question, I don't pay for-profit schools any mind so no point in addressing those. But as for the others, how do you know they're reputable? Being accredited doesn't seem to be a deciding factor nowadays as seems like most are accredited.

What state are you in? You can pick either and get a good job. Just may have to move out to the boondocks.

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Which track would be best for someone who wants to work as a NP in the hospital to round for doctors/work in clinics/ etc? AGACNP or FNP?

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
socal1 said:
Which track would be best for someone who wants to work as a NP in the hospital to round for doctors/work in clinics/ etc? AGACNP or FNP?

hospital is acute care, if you want to do acute care then take the acute care path. if you plan to work in outpatient clinic, take the primary path or potentially acute path for specialty practice.

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wayemika said:
What state are you in? You can pick either and get a good job. Just may have to move out to the boondocks.

Alabama. I live in a dire need area according to the map.

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Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).

There appears to be a misconception that areas with a shortage of primary care providers are all in the middle of nowhere. Not true.

1. Many inner cities need providers desperately.

2. Many small to medium size cities and towns desperately need providers. For example, of the 9 job offers I received, 7 were in or very close to cities ranging from 100,000 to 1 million population. That is hardly the middle of nowhere. Here in California, everyone seems to want to live in San Francisco/Silicon Valley, Los Angeles, or San Diego. Well, California is a very big and populous state. The rest of the state really needs providers, has a reasonable cost of living, and will pay quite well. We have a lot of cities with 50,000 people and up that are quite nice.

3. It is hard work to find a job in any profession and one must develop good job search skills, which includes the ability to research, network, interview, and market oneself online and with a good resume and cover letter.

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Specializes in ED, OR, Oncology.

That is an RN job. it is a PT infusion therapy gig at a med-spa. They do list RN or NP, but if you want to do RN level work as an NP, it would be expected that you will receive RN level pay.

FNP2B1 said:
The only studies I need to see are the classifieds on Indeed for NPs. That combined with what my seasoned, more than 5 years experience as a NP colleagues tell me in regards to pay.

Here is a job I was just sent. It keeps getting worse

$25 to $45 an hour in Pacific Palisades California. Probably one of the most expensive place to live in So Cal.

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I totally agree with you. Part of the problem is the huge availability of online NP programs. Nurses no more have to do GRE, attend classes, practicals , tutorials in order to become an NP. The standard is lowered now. all you need is a BSN, computer and huge loan, then you will be an NP. The role of an NO is totally different to an RN. You can't learn to save a life and perform a focused physical exam on a patient online. I know that here in Florida a lot of physicians are catching on and won't even hire an NP with online degree. Physician Assistants will now be in more demand because there training is going to be more marketable than an NP. The role of an NP is not for everyone-it involves a lot of medical knowledge; expert clinical skills, communication skills and so forth. I feel bad for those RNs who especially are sacrificing time with their children and money for a degree that is not going to benefit them or their families in the long run.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Ree01 said:
You can't learn to save a life and perform a focused physical exam on a patient online.

Just to be clear, online NP programs still require clinical hours.

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Yes but are the clinicals done in a setting that supports adequate training and supervision of students especially core physical assessment, diagnostic skills. Compare the training of a RN to that of a NP ( online) - RN training is heavily supervised and regulated by their educational institution- online training is not. Compare the clinical training of a medical student / Resident to that of an online NP - there is no comparison and in the end both NP and Medical Student/ Resident get to write prescriptions, see the same number of patients and make same diagnosis- how is that safe ?

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Ree01 said:
I totally agree with you. Part of the problem is the huge availability of online NP programs. Nurses no more have to do GRE, attend classes, practicals , tutorials in order to become an NP. The standard is lowered now. all you need is a BSN, computer and huge loan, then you will be an NP. The role of an NO is totally different to an RN. You can't learn to save a life and perform a focused physical exam on a patient online. I know that here in Florida a lot of physicians are catching on and won't even hire an NP with online degree. Physician Assistants will now be in more demand because there training is going to be more marketable than an NP. The role of an NP is not for everyone-it involves a lot of medical knowledge; expert clinical skills, communication skills and so forth. I feel bad for those RNs who especially are sacrificing time with their children and money for a degree that is not going to benefit them or their families in the long run.

My courses are conducted via the internet and require me to attend synchronous online classes at specific times. The classes are instructed by top professor from around the nation (upenn, hopkins, columbia). Online is the future, to an extent. Look at Yale with their PA program conducted online. Considering program requirements, the bar should be set higher. However, not all online NP programs are conducted the same.

I am able to review lectures prior to my hosted classroom session. I come to lecture prepared to discuss content. Classroom may involve question and answer, group discussions, etc. completed through adobe connect or zoom. In person schools do not allow you to rewatch lectures unless you record it yourself. Online schools allow recording of lectures and course content. My uni also finds our preceptors based on strict standards.

I feel the education I am acquiring will prepare me to be a great provider.

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xxbeach said:
My courses are conducted via the internet and require me to attend synchronous online classes at specific times. The classes are instructed by top professor from around the nation (upenn, hopkins, columbia). Online is the future, to an extent. Look at Yale with their PA program conducted online. Considering program requirements, the bar should be set higher. However, not all online NP programs are conducted the same.

I am able to review lectures prior to my hosted classroom session. I come to lecture prepared to discuss content. Classroom may involve question and answer, group discussions, etc. completed through adobe connect or zoom. In person schools do not allow you to rewatch lectures unless you record it yourself. Online schools allow recording of lectures and course content. My uni also finds our preceptors based on strict standards.

I feel the education I am acquiring will prepare me to be a great provider.

Exactly. I went to frontier and had a broad range of "in class" requirements that were far more involved than simple self study. Topped with in person check offs before we were allowed to start clinicals and faculty checks on clinical rotations in person, there are many online programs doing things right. Brick and mortar don't run NP clinicals like RN clinicals any more than online schools. They just happen to have a more "local"presence. But the students are just as likely to be in a remote clinic as any online student where the clinic training may or may not be effective.

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