Should managers show up to work before everyone else?

Bug Out, BSN · Jun 23, 2023

To give context I have worked in a large corporate setting for some time now and my wife is in management. I think your question is somewhat of a mix of what a manager should do and what salaried expectations are. I do not know you or your situation so take things with a grain of salt as I will be speaking in generalities.

In generalities there are two types of salaried positions; the first is where you are expected to work around 40hrs a week, do a certain amount of work a week, and it is considered a more long term role. The second type is expected to work much more than 40hrs and generally is a high-intensity role but these roles are generally highly compensated and usually have significant bonuses (>20% of your income) at the end of the year and only last 1-2 years before being promoted. I am guessing you are in the first role.
Taking time off to compensate for extra work, especially over the weekend, is entirely appropriate. What sounds like it is missing is a conversation with your leader to ask what their expectations are and what they believe is an appropriate work/life/compensation balance. I would strongly urge you to have this conversation so that expectations are known.

Having to show up early or stay late is common in certain roles. I often have meetings at 0500 or 2200 and occasionally work weekends. I do compensate for this time however by either taking time off or leaving early as needed but my leader is aware and supportive of this. In my role and my wife's role longevity is valued so a work/life/compensation balance is important to our leaders.
One thing to be mindful of is being the type of manage who strives to be everything to everyone, not saying you are. I have seen people get in trouble because they were going out of their way to relieve others on their team but end up burning out because of the extra work and/or cannot meet their primary expectations.

I suspect you need to have an earnest sit-down with your leader and discuss expectations. I would also recommend finding a leader mentor.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jun 23, 2023

What type of work setting is it?

TriciaJ, RN · Jun 23, 2023

What's common is to take advantage of the person who is easiest to take advantage of.

"You can always come in at 7" tells me you have a salaried position and they're going to milk you for all you allow.

The LPNs come in at whatever time they want because they can. Sadly, the world does not share your work ethic and it isn't going to.

You need to assess your responsibilities compared with your scope of authority. My hunch is that there is a gross mismatch which you will have to navigate.

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 23, 2023

Are you salaried? Are the LPNs salaried? Who is the manager here that you are asking about?

SilverBells, BSN · Jun 24, 2023

CrunchRN said:

What type of work setting is it?

Assisted Living/Memory Care

SilverBells, BSN · Jun 24, 2023

klone said:

Are you salaried? Are the LPNs salaried? Who is the manager here that you are asking about?

I am salaried, while the LPNs are not. My question is whether or not I, as the RN manager, should be expected to get there earlier than the LPNs

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 24, 2023

I can tell you what I do, for whatever that is worth. I get to work at about 0645 every morning, which is before everyone else (people start trickling in around 0715-0730). I am able to get a lot of things done in that 45 minutes while I'm alone and the place is quiet.

I generally leave for the day around 4pm, although once in a while I will stay later (for instance, we have RN coverage in the clinic until 5:30-6, whenever the last patient leaves, and very occasionally that late coverage will fall through so I will stay late until the patients are all gone).

It is not the EXPECTATION that I am the first person to be there, as the manager. It's what I do because it works for me, I'm most productive early in the morning, and I'd rather come early and leave a little earlier (my wife works 6a-2p so this way we have more time together than if I worked 8-5).

I certainly would not work 7a-7p every day as a salaried employee. I typically put in about 45 hours/week and I'm okay with that. It's worth the "extra uncompensated" hours to have the flexibility to leave after lunch occasionally if I have an appointment or if I just want to leave early because there's not much going on that day.

I don't know how this information is going to help you or really, exactly what your real question/issue is. If you are the nurse manager, does that mean you are the supervisor of the LPNs? If so, I'm unclear why you are not simply letting them know what their expected hours of work are, based on their FTE and work agreement, and then holding them to that expectation. But again, I'm not really clear what exactly your question /problem is.

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 24, 2023

Quote

When I took my current position, I was told that my hours would be about 8-4:30. However, when I started, I quickly observed that the LPN supervisors do what they want. One comes late on Wednesdays. Another one leaves early on Wednesdays. The third one always shows up at 9am instead of 8. All three leave whenever they want and take days off whenever they want.

Are you their manager? If so, why are you allowing them to come and go as they please? If you're not their manager, then you should not care. They're hourly. They're not gaming the system. They're being paid for the hours they're there, and taking PTO (or taking unpaid time) for the hours they're not. They may have prior arrangements with their manager. They may have intermittent FMLA for medical appointments, or are taking classes on Wednesdays that their manager approved. Do their hours and when they come and go affect you and your job in any way?

SilverBells said:

Yet, I got chewed out when I took two days off after working over 30 hours over the weekend, including 16 hours on the floor. Whenever I get to work at 9am, I get chewed out for that, too, because I don't always have every single piece of information for a meeting. I have a few tasks that take me awhile to complete and a couple of people have said that I can always show up earlier than 8 if needed.

When you took 2 days off, did you let your boss know, or ask for the time off ahead of time? If so, why would they "chew you out" after if they approved it? If you did not let them know or ask for the time off ahead of time, then yeah, I could see why they would be perturbed. You can't just not show up for work without it running it by someone first, regardless of what your previous day looked like and how many hours you worked. If you are truly the manager (I thought this new job was NOT management??), people depend on you for things, and expect you to come to work when you are supposed to work. You can't just not show up.

If I strolled into work at 9am and was unprepared for a meeting, people would be pretty unhappy with me as well. Again, who is/are the person(s) "chewing you out" Is it your supervisor/manager/boss?

SilverBells said:

I think they want me to show up at 7am so they don't have to and can show up when they want. It also seems they're expecting more out of me simply because I'm an RN. They want me to work like a dog (7am -7pm, before and after everyone else leaves) so they can have their nice, flexible schedules.

Who is "they"? Are you referring to the LPNs? Are you their boss? If so, why are you letting them run the show and come/go as they please? If you're not their boss, why are you letting them dictate YOUR hours? If you were hired with the expectation that you work 8-4:30, then work 8-4:30. If there are occasional days when you need a couple hours to prepare for a 9am meeting, then come in at 7 and prepare for it! That's part of being salaried - sometimes you may work more than 40 hours in a week. But you do what you need to do in order to do your job effectively. And don't worry about what they are doing. If you're not their boss, their hours are not your responsibility. If you are not their boss, how are you the RN manager?

This whole post confuses me. You confuse me.

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Jun 25, 2023

SilverBells said:

I am salaried, while the LPNs are not. My question is whether or not I, as the RN manager , should be expected to get there earlier than the LPNs

I find it interesting when the M-F people don't include the shift workers. If the LPNs are working 0700-1500, 1500-2300 and then 2300-0700, which group of LPNs do they want you there "before" You can't be there 24/7.

I believe that most nurses have NO idea what managers have to do. It's not all about what happens on the floor. You should be there when YOU need to be there, not what they expect.

toomuchbaloney · Jun 25, 2023

Are you comparing yourself to the LPNs?

It's appropriate to expect you to be prepared for a 9am meeting.