Should I make a stink about this?

UnicornMagic · Oct 20, 2015

The umbilical cord and part of the placenta biologically belong to the fetus. It is the sole source of blood, nutrients and oxygen. If you failed to mention the umbilical cord, you should have been marked down.

If you want to talk to her about her expectations for the open-ended questions, or ask for help in doing better in the future, that would be reasonable. It shows initiative. If you "make a stink" over getting partial credit on a question you only got partially correct, I don't see that ending well for you.

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Oct 20, 2015

Everything that is made to support the fetus is part of the fetal circulation, which includes placenta and umbilical cord.

Zooey72 · Oct 20, 2015

I do not agree that something outside of the body is part of the circulatory system. You could argue the mother's entire body is part of the circulatory system and be correct. The point is, if she left an open ended question that you have no idea what she wanted. Can she mark me wrong for it, sure. Could she have included the mother's lungs (since that ultimately is where the blood get's oxygenated) as part of the O2 concentration of the blood? Ya, that would be right as well. She said she wanted the answers in three or so sentences, I was not writing a paper.

Another question she had that I did get credit for (remember 3 or so sentences) is the function of elastin in the arteries... Really, what part of that do you want answered in 3 sentences? I just happened to guess what she wanted written because she gives ZERO indication as to what she is looking for.

If she wanted the exterior of the fetus in the answer she should have stated in the question the parameters of what she was asking. The amount of detail I put into the answer leaves no doubt that I would know the biology that every 4th grader knows about the umbilical cord (notice how you also said placenta, I would not have been marked down for that. She decided that was not part of what she wanted in the answer).

UnicornMagic · Oct 20, 2015

I do not agree that something outside of the body is part of the circulatory system.

Luckily, your opinion does not trump science. The umbilical cord and part of the placenta are biologically part of the fetus. They contain fetal cells. The maternal side of the placenta is biologically part of the mother. They contain the mother's cells. There is a placental barrier that separates the maternal and fetal blood. Once blood crosses that barrier, it is officially part of the fetal circulatory system. As such, you should have mentioned it.

As a potential future nurse, you should really try to focus less on your unfounded medical opinions, and more on facts that have been proven by those with experience and education in the field.

You admittedly are "not sure where the line is drawn between the mother and fetus." If it were me, I would take the opportunity to ask my professor to further explain the fetal circulatory system, because that is a huge component and clearly you don't have as clear of an understanding as you think. However, it sounds like you may be more interested in being told what you want to hear vs. the truth. If that is the case, by all means go raise a stink with your professor. Tell her the umbilical "chord" (which, although you seem to know everything, does not exist) is not part of the fetus. Tell her all of her years of education hold nothing to you, oh wise one. Come back here and let me know how it went!

Zooey72 · Oct 20, 2015

You have missed the point, and missed it badly.

To start, and I should have probably should have stressed this. In none of the reading that was assigned, the online things she put in, nor her lectures is what you are saying mentioned (where the fetus and mother start/end). I was not given the information, nor was it said it was something that I had to independently find out on my own. I also did not explain what the valves do in a fetal heart as compared to a normal heart. I didn't mention the difference in fetal blood and adult blood, or the placenta. Again not marked down on that, but she could mark me down if she wanted to. I would also like to see exactly how all of this fits into 3 or 4 sentences when the question is 'explain fetal circulation'.

The question was vague - PERIOD. I was not given the information nor told that I needed to know this - PERIOD. And as far as my Profs teaching creds... Well you still don't know what you are talking about. Since I have been in her class she has been 'evaluated' 4 times in 1/2 of a semester in just my class. A 1/3 of her students are getting a D or are failing (I have a B plus atm). She also prides herself (she told us this on the first day) that 1/3 of the students who take her class (and pass) have to retake the class because they did not get the grade they wanted.

My assumption given that none of this information was provided to me, nor was it told to me that I needed to know that a bunch of tissue that was OUTSIDE OF THE FETUS, and is not part of the fetus's internal anatomy is not a stretch, esp. given the fact that I have 3 or 4 sentences to get key points in such as the fetal heart being much different than the adult heart.

I have a history degree. Can you tell me the name of the battle that was fought in July 1943 on the German eastern front w/o googling it? Probably not, but even if you do happen to know the answer to that question w/o looking it up no one told you you would need to know that (nor is it in anything you have read to prepare for a test). How in the heck can it be fair game to put on a test?

You have a very snide way of answering a question. I put in my previous posts why I have an issue with the way she chose to phrase her questions. Instead of answering it and being helpful you chose to use your responses to be insulting. Don't lecture me "my opinion does not trump"... blah blah blah. I WAS NOT TOLD I WAS REQUIRED TO KNOW THIS, NOR WAS I GIVEN THE MATERIAL THAT HAD THAT BIT OF INFORMATION IN IT.

The answer to the historical question I posed to you is the battle of Kursk. I want you to enlighten me on that battle in 3-4 sentences w/o you googling anything. Keep in mind, no answer you give I can't say something is wrong, since THE BATTLE LASTED WEEKS, ENTIRE BOOKS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ON IT, AND A QUESTION LIKE THAT CAN NOT BE ANSWERED IN 3 OR 4 SENTENCES!

JustBeachyNurse, LPN · Oct 20, 2015

What response are you looking for? What are you going to gain by 'making a stink'? Are you going to the professor? Nursing dept? Dept chair? Dean?

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Oct 20, 2015

OP, the point being made (regardless of whether you like how it is said) is that while YOU believe you are something of an expert on the topic for which you were tested....it appears that at least in your professor's estimation (as well as others here on this forum) you are not. And since the professor of this course is the ONLY one who can assist you to improve your grades in her class, it is with her that you must take up the discussion.

You posed the question "Should I make a stink about this?" and you received answers, albeit not ones you wanted to hear. You were told the rationales for why the respondents did not believe full credit was deserved, only partial (and therefore believed your professor's view on the subject should be upheld).

You do not have to agree, but shouting about it does not change the facts presented. You can use ALL CAPITALS to hammer in your point....but the bottom line is, others disagree with you. Make "a stink", if you wish, but you should be aware it probably won't do you any good, nor does it change what you do and don't know on the topic.

Maybe it's a little too early to go down this road, but maybe not: the NCLEX is an exam in which there are typically multiple correct answers to a question; the ultimately correct answer choice will sometimes be only barely preferable to the others. BUT it is the difference between passing that exam and failing it. Your teacher may be preparing you to think in a way that is better suited to doing well on the NCLEX....after all, you cannot argue points with that particular test.

Good luck.

Psychcns · Oct 20, 2015

Part of the school process is not fighting battles you are not going to win. I would humbly ask her for guidance to better answer the questions. You know the material- you have to answer the questions so that you can get credit. You have to change-not her.. At least this is how it looks to me.

Zooey72 · Oct 20, 2015

There was roughly 4 pages of content that needed to be known on fetal circulation. The stop/start of where the baby ends and the mother begins was in none of it. And even if it were I can not fit 4 pages into 3 or 4 sentences. The prof had an obligation to be either be more specific in what it is she wanted to know (unless you can explain the battle of kursk to me in 4 sentences), or had the information provided to me in what was assigned.

I know that the NCLEX is tough. But I would hope to god that the questions would have something in them that would give you the option of getting the right answer. There could be greater/lesser degree questions, I don't have an issue with that. If they ask "what is the best medication for treating hypertension patient X, who has Y symptoms" and lists off various beta blockers, calcium blockers, and ace inhibitors I can study for that. Asking the question "Which is the best hypertension med", and giving no more information than that so that I have to guess at what it is they want is not right.

More than one answer is fine as well. I am currently on both an ace inhibitor and a calcium blocker for my hypertension. If an NCLEX question gave me as an example, and asked what the best meds are for me there would be 2 answers. But you can't ask "what are the 2 best hypertension meds" and not put it in context.

IMO there were 2 ways my prof should have gone with this. She could either have given us a ton of room to write a very extensive answer to a very open ended question, or she could have been specific in what she wanted to know so it can be answered in 3 or 4 sentences.

I could have been marked down for not explaining the difference in the valves, but she was not looking for that so I wasn't... or the placenta, or whatever. You can say till you are blue in the face that "well, the teacher was right", but that does not change the fact that no matter what I answered I was going to leave something out because 1. I was not given the information in which to study from. 2. The question was entirely too broad to be covered in 3-4 sentences. 3. I can't read her mind as to what it is she wants me to cover.

And by "making a stink" I mean bringing it up to her. I usually just let this stuff go because I know I will pull an A out in the end, so why go through the hassle. And also many prof. do not take kindly to being questioned about anything and I get that vibe from her. But I am on the border of an A/B and I think every point this semester will count.

If you can answer me something about the way she does case studies and unit projects I would be very appreciative. We do 1/2 our unit projects on our own (as in 1/2 the individual UP is done on our own), and than we come into class split into groups and she gives us 10 minutes to complete new questions about the unit project. I have gotten perfect scores on my side of the unit projects, but when it comes to group stuff our group has been marked down. There are 4 of us in the group, and once 2 of us didn't even show up. We are not given enough time to do all of the questions as a group even when we do have a full group, so we have to split up the questions and 'speed google' to get the correct answer. The case studies are the same way except it is all group points and you have absolutely no idea what it is that will be asked before you come to class.

Is this just the way it is? I just want to prepare myself for it if it is, because the way this is done seems very.... well...

If she wants to do group projects fine, but I would like a chance to review what my lab partners did before I submit it for a grade. And I really don't see how becoming a speed googler is going to help me whatsoever.

hardwrkingmama · Oct 20, 2015

OP, this is how a majority of Professors teach this subject! My school does not combine Anatomy and Physiology, but I am in Physio now. The Professors are looking for you to really 'critically think' your way through both the question and your answer. I know it can be frustrating not always knowing exactly what they are looking for but you must ask questions on how to perform better, not question the professors teaching style. I personally cannot stand the way my prof. teaches my class but I have learned to work with it. I also ask questions, before the exam, about how exactly he wants us to answer essay questions. They know the material, they are looking to see if we do!

I understand exactly where you are coming from but you really have to change the way you are looking at this whole situation. As far as making a stink, I really don't think a few points is worth all that, especially when you said there were other things she could have taken points off for but didn't. Become proactive in your situation, stay after class, ask her questions that will gain you a better understanding of exactly what she is looking for! Good luck!

BeachsideRN, ASN · Oct 20, 2015

Oh boy. You are gonna have a tough time in nursing classes.