Should we curtail the growth of nursing programs?

[MikeyBSN]

Although nursing was considered a "good" job when I started, it was nothing like what is being promoted today. After the economy crashed, I have seen an explosion in nursing program advertisements. There are new nursing programs opening all the time and I have recently seen programs advertising getting a degree faster than any other program. Personally, I think this is bad for nursing. Because of federal financial aid, these schools can and do recruit anyone who wants a job; not anyone who wants to be a nurse. Not only does this diminish the nursing talent that we have, it also floods the market. Just take a look at the unemployed nurses posting on here constantly. We have all seen this with other professions that were once "hot". People rush into them, hate what they're doing, flood the market, and move on. I, for one, do not want to see the for-profit American Colleges destroy yet another profession. Yes we need more nurses in the future, but we should limit the number of nursing programs to the projected growth. Is this protectionism? Perhaps. But I think that a little bit of nursing protectionism is okay in the face of a large amount of "big education" greed.

[Heidi the nurse, BSN, RN]

You have made my point for me, less schools=less graduates.

Again - maybe. I know some don't believe there is a nursing shortage, but still, we are an aging profession in an aging society. The average age of RN's now adays is 45. For teachers, its 42. For doctors, 44. For construction workers, 39 (yes, there is a projected shortage of construction workers due to their aging population:)).

If we need to continue with a RN population in the 2.6 to 2.7 million area, we need to keep educating them. Perhaps a more telling statistic would be trends in graduation rates vs. retirement rates.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Again - maybe. I know some don't believe there is a nursing shortage, but still, we are an aging profession in an aging society. The average age of RN's now adays is 45. For teachers, its 42. For doctors, 44. For construction workers, 39 (yes, there is a projected shortage of construction workers due to their aging population:)).

If we need to continue with a RN population in the 2.6 to 2.7 million area, we need to keep educating them. Perhaps a more telling statistic would be trends in graduation rates vs. retirement rates.

is that average age of nurses, licensed or practicing? has it gone down or up, and the same for docs.....and teachers.

[Heidi the nurse, BSN, RN]

is that average age of nurses, licensed or practicing? has it gone down or up, and the same for docs.....and teachers.

According the the Labor Statistics website, that is just RNs.

Found this thread about statistics on AN from a couple years ago - https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/average-age-new-226437.html .

This is an interesting powerpoint about trends with RNs and MDs since the 1980s -

http://www.aha.org/aha/trendwatch/chartbook/2009/chapter5.ppt

page number 10 is ages of MDs throughout the years - it looks like the younger ones have remained about the same, but the older doc numbers have increased quite a bit. Not sure how to calculate a median from that information.

Found a similar chart for teachers, stating that the median age in 1980 was 36 (their data says the median was 43 in 2000), but the sheer number of older teachers has increased.

http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/TheChangingAgeStructureofUSTeachers.aspx

Same with construction workers - according to this website, their median age has increased since 1985 by 4.4 years. http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/updates/upd-12-01-09.html

I know this is all a moot point to people who can't find a job. One of the interesting comments I found on a survey of hospital vacancies and employee turnover put it this way - in 2011, people are holding on to the jobs and "Just think about when the economy starts to move. Will your employees?"

http://www.nsinursingsolutions.com/.../NationalHealthcareRNRetentionReport2011.pdf

Sorry for all the links, but just want people to be able to check information because I know every time I try to find information again I can't.

[DarkBluePhoenix]

Like someone said in another post, all other fields are "controlled" ie doctors, pharmacists, lawyers etc... why didn't the nursing profession control how many nurses are being pumped out when obviously it is un needed (as of now)?

[morte, LPN, LVN]

Like someone said in another post, all other fields are "controlled" ie doctors, pharmacists, lawyers etc... why didn't the nursing profession control how many nurses are being pumped out when obviously it is un needed (as of now)?

Because we don't have the capability. Those have prof. groups rep. them and either provide rec/approval or actual legal permission.

[Heidi the nurse, BSN, RN]

Because we don't have the capability. Those have prof. groups rep. them and either provide rec/approval or actual legal permission.

I don't understand what this means. Nursing schools are accredited, so how does what other groups do differ. Do doctors and lawyers have individual say in when a law or medical school is opened?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Uh...do you not realize that we are in a recession and EVERYONE is hurting?

Also, I don't know if you realize this, but as someone else said, the prereqs, clinicals, etc, do a great job at weeding out those who are unqualified to enter the field of nursing. Trust me. I've come across quite a few of these people, people who couldn't even pass an introductory chemistry course or outright flunked ANATOMY or couldn't do basic algebra will not make it into nursing.

Then there are clinicals and the nursing program itself that helps rid the market of wannabe nurses.

And then there are the AD Nurses. Of course, BSN nurses are going to get a preference. I find that most of the nurses who complain about unemployment have a two year degree or a degree from one of those "diploma mills" where they did clinicals ONLINE (****).

[Bhavana]

Well, though it may be true that nursing jobs are not as plentiful as say 5 or 10 years ago, I think that the LACK of jobs is exaggerated. It is tough all over, not just in nursing, but there are jobs out there, and I have found that most of those who are complaining that there are not are being too picky. Finding a job is hard work, you have to get out there and compete with the rest of the people who want the same job - and you have to be willing to take what you can get. I have talked to so many new grads who are looking - they want to start out at 50K, they want day shift, they want specialty areas, not med/surg, they want hospital work, etc etc. You can't have so many demands in this economy, you are setting yourself up for failure that way.

It may take a little time to find work, certain parts of the country are going to be tougher than others - and you may have to settle for a nursing home job, or a shift or hours you don't want... but everyone has to start somewhere. Blaming the nursing schools is ridiculous. But, like everything else these days, everyone wants to point the finger at anyone but themselves. Have a brain? Can you read, do some research? You should be doing so BEFORE you sign up for any career path. The responsibility ultimately lies with the individual. If you believe what everyone says, or that the whole world will come to you on a silver platter, you are bound to be disappointed, and may be unemployed for a while.

[Otessa, BSN, RN]

Again - maybe. I know some don't believe there is a nursing shortage, but still, we are an aging profession in an aging society. The average age of RN's now adays is 45. For teachers, its 42. For doctors, 44. For construction workers, 39 (yes, there is a projected shortage of construction workers due to their aging population:)).

If we need to continue with a RN population in the 2.6 to 2.7 million area, we need to keep educating them. Perhaps a more telling statistic would be trends in graduation rates vs. retirement rates.

Is the average age of nurses higher because many are not able to retire as they had previously? or have come back to the profession due to life circumstances?

[Heidi the nurse, BSN, RN]

Not having much luck finding a graph like for the teacher or doctors, but found this from 2008

"The age of registered nurses has been consistently rising for the fast 20 years. Almost 45 percent of registered nurses were 50 years or older, a large increase from 33 percent in 2000. The majority of registered nurses, 84.8 percent, are actively working in their field with 63.2 working full time. Of the nurses working full time, more than 75 percent of them are under the age of 30. As nurses age, they report that they are less likely to be working in nursing positions. In fact, after the age of 50, the shares of registered nurses tend to drop for each age group, from 87.5 percent of nurses in the 50 to 54 age range to 85.1 percent of those in the 55 to 59 range."

http://www.rncentral.com/nursing-library/Registered_Nurses_Characteristics_of_the_Workforce

So I would think RNs not retiring is part of the equation, it doesn't explain the trending for the last 20 years. I am almost 50, and am planning to go back and get my Masters, figuring I have 20 years left in me. Not really looking forward to working until almost 70, but a girls gotta do what a girls gotta do.

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

IThere are 2.6 million RN's working in the US - AACN has 660 accredited schools, NLNAC has maybe 1000. And I am sure many are accredited by both. So even if there are 2000 accredited nursing school (just BSN or ADN, not higher level degrees), that puts the percent of schools to actual practitioner pretty much in the ball park between the two.

People fail to realize that nursing programs do not need to be accredited by the NLNAC or CCNE. Accreditation is something that is additional and voluntary to ensure that the nursing program has certain standards. Believe me when I say that there are masses of unaccredited nursing programs (mostly, these are the for-profit schools).

Nursing programs need to be approved to operate by the state board of nursing, but accreditation is not mandatory. In addition, many RNs and LPNs attended unaccredited schools, but were able to attain licensure because their school of nursing was merely approved to operate by the BON.

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

AMA controls residency slots. Nursing requires no residency, so how can nursing control its numbers?