Set you up to fail?

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I just completed and passed my first nursing class and I'm excited to move on to clinicals next year. It was difficult, but I made it. Many students did not make it and I've talked with a few who believe that the school purposely set them up to fail. Some of them believe that there's this conspiracy to have only a few students graduate even when there's a nursing shortage. I myself don't believe in this "conspiracy" not because I was one of the few who passed because I believe I'm in control of whether I pass or fail. The one thing I didn't like is when the faculty and staff would mention that half of the students who were currently in the nursing program would not pass. Some people automatically gave up (subconsciously) when they heard this while others were determined to pass. I was determine to pass even when I procrastinated from beginning to end. I'm tired of students who refuse to own up to their own mistakes. They need to stop blaming others.

Specializes in home health, LTC, assisted living.

At least your school is open and honest to say how many do not make it, at my school they try to keep it quiet. :rolleyes:

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho.

When someone fails the common comment seems to be "that wasnt in lecture",, well they didnt kill half a dozen acres of forrest and give you a foot thick stack of syllabus for nothing. A little forsight would have directed them to look at the syllabus and at least skim the required reading.

As far as involving a lawyer,:rolleyes: see how fast they get in another program after being involved with that.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

60% washed out of my class.

99% of those who did wash out, needed to, desperately. i would not have let them take care of a goldfish.

there was one who should have been a nurse far as I was concerned and i felt her washing out was political.

nursing.....it is not for everyone. If you can't hack studying, time management, and the pressures of clinicals, nursing will definately be a tough road to hoe for ya.

it gets rough out there on the floor as a new RN believe me.

good luck to all of you.

Specializes in Pediatrics.

I just recently discussed the "conspiracy theory" with a classmate. She seemed to think that they were trying to fail people on purpose and that it couldn't possibly look good for the school to lose so many students. My response was the whole thing about the NCLEX pass rates (I think our school's was 98% last year). I got an "ohhh" out of that one!

I was just thinking about the whole idea of nursing school and my attitude earlier today. I noticed that when I speak to people about the future I say "when I graduate" not "if I graduate". I believe that attitude is 100% in this program. If you push yourself, it can be done.

Specializes in Adult Med-Surg, Rehab, and Ambulatory Care.
Originally posted by FarmRN2Be

I was just thinking about the whole idea of nursing school and my attitude earlier today. I noticed that when I speak to people about the future I say "when I graduate" not "if I graduate". I believe that attitude is 100% in this program. If you push yourself, it can be done.

Amen to that, I agree 100%!!

Originally posted by FarmRN2Be

I just recently discussed the "conspiracy theory" with a classmate. She seemed to think that they were trying to fail people on purpose and that it couldn't possibly look good for the school to lose so many students. My response was the whole thing about the NCLEX pass rates (I think our school's was 98% last year).

I got an "ohhh" out of that one!

I had to laugh when I read that. Like, duh. Of couse it's about the NCLEX! If these people can't figure that out, they don't belong in nursing.

To me, nursing school should be hard. Very hard. You do have people's lives in your hands, and I appreciate the fact that I should go through absolute hell to earn that responsibility.

What are these people going to do when a doctor is barking out orders?

Ask him to slow down and repeat it several times? Complain that it's "too hard" and call it a conspiracy? I don't think so.

Originally posted by lizz

I had to laugh when I read that. Like, duh. Of couse it's about the NCLEX! If these people can't figure that out, they don't belong in nursing.

No, It's not about the NCLEX. It's about learning to be a competant nurse. I'll pay Kaplan to prepare me for the NCLEX. What I wanted out of Nursing School was an education, not a test-prep course. I think what the original poster was referring to was what we have discussed many times here before. Nursing school attrition rates are hideous, and why?

Well, some people fail justly, they can't handle the work. But those people, lazy though they may be, were still failed by the system in some way. How? By having been let into the program in the first place. My school considers applicants with a C in pre-reqs. I don't know how many actually get in, but anyone with a C in A&P isn't going to be able to make an equivalent grade or better in Nursing classes unless some serious remediation occurs, and that doesn't happen in nursing schools, quite rightly. By this stage you should show some self direction.

On the other hand, You can't get it all just by reading the book. Clinical and lecture are important for reinforcing what you read, and some people are being short-changed by incompetant lectures and clinical faculty who either intimidate (who doesn't know one?) or just don't care. The good instructors can't possibly work hard enough to make up for it. Teaching needs to be made a more atttractive option, but that's a whole 'nother thread.

There are indeed people who have ambition, good study habits, and adequate critical thinking skills who fail out of nursing school because schools do use techniques that select for the best test takers. They do this because they are held accountable by State Boards for their 1st time NCLEX pass rate, and there is no easier or more cost effective way to ensure success by that measure, though there certainly should be better ways. All of you who make blanket statements about students who fail being lazy and deserving it, don't you know at least one person who had to leave your program and you said, "Damn, they would have been a good nurse" I do. I know MORE than one.

No, it's not a conspiracy theory. Most nursing schools and faculty probably don't have the conscious intention of harming their students. There is a culture in place that supports punitive treatment instead of support, that's all. Admit the right students in the first place, then spend your resources to ensure that those students succeed. Yes, you gotta bust your booty in Nursing school but if you are willing to do so, you shouldn't ever be faced with failure, and some people still are.

Kim

Just wanted to add some comments, AT my nursing school (and Im sure others) they tell you up front what you need to pass, They tell you up front how many clinicals you can afford to miss. I went into to this LPN program knowing that it wasnt going to be easy.

Its a parttime program where most of the students work and have families, That makes it a challenge in itself. Some people just cant make it through the program. Its hard to find the time to study! ME I have a disabled son, a baby girl and two older kids, and I have my own health problems..

There had been a time where I had to miss a clinical because my son had a asthma attack and was admitted into the hospital. Something always goes wrong at the wrong time. But I think the reason why Im making it through is because I wanted this for 10years!!! I know that this is my destiny I know that Im going to be a nurse!

Some cant say that! Some people that get into this field because of the money and others because this is what they want... You have to be REALLY DETERMINED TO MAKE IT!! ONLY THE STRONG WILL SURVIVE! Some just cant cut the mustard!! Not because they are not smart enough but because they dont apply themselves or because they have other Crap going on in their lives that interfere with their school.

Originally posted by kimtab

No, It's not about the NCLEX. It's about learning to be a competant nurse.

My school considers applicants with a C in pre-reqs. I don't know how many actually get in, but anyone with a C in A&P isn't going to be able to make an equivalent grade or better in Nursing classes unless some serious remediation occurs, and that doesn't happen in nursing schools, quite rightly.

There are indeed people who have ambition, good study habits, and adequate critical thinking skills who fail out of nursing school because schools do use techniques that select for the best test takers. They do this because they are held accountable by State Boards for their 1st time NCLEX pass rate, and there is no easier or more cost effective way to ensure success by that measure, though there certainly should be better ways.

Actually, I agree with you. My comment was directed toward the realities of how schools handle NCLEX pass rates, more than anything else. I also realize there's a tendency to overgeneralize, so you are right to point that out.

As far as allowing C's in A&P, my school had that criteria as well, but just recently changed to GPA preference. You can still get C's in A&P, but you are less likely to be accepted if you do. Many regional schools have done the same, or instituted minimum science GPAs of 2.75 or higher.

In my state, each school must prove that students with higher GPAs perform better in nursing school, or they cannot switch to GPA criteria.

In light of the fact that many schools in my area have switched, I assume there's at least some evidence to support that conclusion, although I'm sure there are exceptions as well.

I heard that about the nursing program at my school, too. (I wonder if we go to the same school?) I know how discouraging its been for a lot of people because quite a few gave up and dropped out. But, there's two ways of looking at the situation:

From what I've heard, some nursing schools structure their program around knowledge and they test students based on how well they retain the texbook stuff. Other schools structure their program around critical thinking, and they couldn't care any less about textbook descriptions of the nursing process. I'm in a program that follows the latter format, and I was very surprised at most of the questions that came up on the tests. Sometimes, all the options in the multiple choice are correct, but you have to choose the one that is the MOST correct, and it can get pretty confusing. They're more interested to know that can apply knowledge to a critical real life situation rather than how well you can remember definitions and normals.

My personal opinion is that the critical thinking approach is better for nursing students in the long run because it is the format that is used in the NCLEX exam. The trick is knowing how to interpret these type of nursing questions. I recommend Test Success by Nugent. You can buy it used dirt cheap on e-bay or half.com, and its well worth getting because it has some pretty good tips and rationales on how to interpret these types of questions and it shows you all the tricks and distractors to look out for. If it wasn't for this book I doubt I would have passed my first nursing course.

"My school considers applicants with a C in pre-reqs. I don't know how many actually get in, but anyone with a C in A&P isn't going to be able to make an equivalent grade or better in Nursing classes unless some serious remediation occurs, and that doesn't happen in nursing schools, quite rightly. By this stage you should show some self direction. "

I happen to have made a 79 in my first A&P class, which is a C. I also happen to be graduating at the top of my class, this Thursday night, and I am the only person out of 23 who made an A this semester in advanced Med-Surg. I have had no C's, only A's and B's throughout nursing school. You are correct, there was no remediation from my nursing program.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Originally posted by lizz

What are these people going to do when a doctor is barking out orders?

Ask him to slow down and repeat it several times? Complain that it's "too hard" and call it a conspiracy? I don't think so.

basically. and they will get eaten alive.:o

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