Seniority and preferential scheduling

[1MoreCoffee]

When I interviewed for my job, I was told that it was mandatory to work rotating shifts (either 7a-7:30p or 7p-7:30a), with a certain number of weekend shifts required per schedule period. The requirement being two weeks of nights and four weeks of days per six-week schedule period. I recently found out that certain nurses do not have to fulfill the night shift requirement, because they have seniority. Our unit director and clinicians work no nights or weekends. Those with seniority also get preference when it comes to vacation schedules and holidays off.

Is this a common arrangement? Is this fair? I am new to nursing, so I do not have experience with the concept of seniority. It should be noted that no matter how many years of seniority you have in my hospital, if you transfer to another unit, you will move to the bottom of the pile. Is it fair then? I personally don't mind fulfilling the requirements but knowing that other people don't have to doesn't sit well with me. I feel that this policy should have been explained in the interview, at a minimum.

[adventure_rn, MSN, NP]

15 hours ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

To answer your question, I have not discussed this with management, but I will. I am in my night rotation at the moment, and as I said, management doesn’t work nights, so it will have to wait until I can discuss it in person.

You could discuss this with management, but I don't see how you'd possibly benefit. I doubt they'll change anything, and in worst case, you might be labeled an entitled new grad (I'm not saying that you actually are an entitled new grad, but you may not want to risk your boss having that perception...)

I don't think that management was withholding this information from you; they probably just didn't think to explicitly mention it because literally all units do this, and they probably assumed you knew. Some degree of seniority is ubiquitous in pretty much every area of nursing; no matter where you go (including outpatient), it's going to play a role in scheduling and vacations. Seniority is almost always the deciding factor in who gets to work day shift. The grass is never going to be greener anywhere else because pretty much all units have some type of seniority policies (although I will say, non-union hospitals tend to have more instances of valuing merit over seniority, whereas union hospitals tend to be very heavily seniority-driven).

That said, the 'seniority perks' policies on your unit should be clearly defined by management to prevent the perception of favoritism. There should be readily-accessible guidelines about who qualifies for seniority perks and when. People with seniority shouldn't be exempt from things like working weekends and holidays, but I think it's reasonable if they're more likely to get their first pick (because they already 'put in their time' as new hires).

I actually think seniority perks benefit the unit. Yes, you don't want to have a night shift that's staffed exclusively by new grads; however, if you take away the seniority perks and all of the experienced people quit, then the unit is staffed exclusively by new grads 100% of the time. My shifts always go better when I've got people with a decade of experience around, and if they need some seniority perks to stay at the inpatient bedside (vs. going outpatient for the better hours), then so be it. This is coming from someone who has never been at a job long enough to reap the benefits of seniority perks...

Honestly, I think that the better solution to the 'too many inexperienced people on nights' problem is to make new grads rotate (so you don't get a huge onslaught of night shift new grads), not to take away seniority perks.

[JKL33]

13 hours ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

I understand the loyalty aspect, but let's not confuse longevity with being a 'good employee', because they are definitely not the same thing.

Right -- that is why the poster wrote, "and have been a good employee."

What are the safety issues you are going to talk to your manager about?

[1MoreCoffee, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

24 minutes ago, JKL33 said:

Right -- that is why the poster wrote, "and have been a good employee.

I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.

[GeminiNurse29]

I feel like seniority is common. Where I used to work, inpatient psych, the senior nurses got to pick vacation and time off requests first yearly. Sucks about the day-night rotation. That’s why I worked straight nocs, I didn’t want to do ams a couple weeks then pms. There was management on nocs but not nearly as much as days and of course, less staff.

[Wuzzie]

19 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

Why? So what if an employee has not been promoted or doesn't have the time to "go the extra mile" because they have...you know, a life? If they come every day, do their job well, are a team player and generally are an asset to the unit why not reward them for sticking it out? It's perks such as these that keep experienced people from leaving. Trust me, you'll change your tune once you're one of the more senior people and in this day and age it doesn't take that long.

[adventure_rn, MSN, NP]

16 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.

In a perfect world, yes; that that's why some facilities have metit-based raises/bonuses and Clinical Ladder programs to reward excellent work. Those systems work really well when you're only being compared against yourself (i.e. did you go above and beyond vs. the bare minimum).

Unfortunately, when those policies pit people against each other (i.e. who has to work certain holidays, who gets to work day shift, etc.) it can quickly devolve into a popularity contest. Somebody has to rank "who worked harder than who," and there's no way for a single person to objectively do that. Even if the person doing the ranking is very objective, the people who don't like the end result will always claim it's unfair. It's a recipe for disaster, and for the vast majority of the staff being dissatisfied.

In contrast, seniority is the only completely objective way to measure your contribution to the unit via years of service.

[1MoreCoffee, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

34 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Why? So what if an employee has not been promoted or doesn't have the time to "go the extra mile" because they have...you know, a life? If they come every day, do their job well, are a team player and generally are an asset to the unit why not reward them for sticking it out? It's perks such as these that keep experienced people from leaving. Trust me, you'll change your tune once you're one of the more senior people and in this day and age it doesn't take that long.

Rewarding years of service over performance serves as a disincentive to be productive. If someone works for me for 10, 20, 30 years and doesn't do anything more than show up, I don't want them on my team. What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement? They are no more valuable than a new hire. I want them to leave.

[Wuzzie]

5 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement?

They dependably show up, give quality care and work as a team member that's what good they are. All of those things contribute in a meaningful way. the extras are just that...extra. Some people don't have the skill to teach or lead and that isn't their fault but you think they should be punished? Others may have other obligations like families or elderly parents that don't allow them to spend any extra time at work . They should be discredited? You have an overly harsh view of the world and are beginning to sound bitter. Perhaps you need to find a different job that suits your keen sense of justice.

[llg, PhD, RN]

1 hour ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.

I think this post goes a bit too far -- taking a legitimate point and emphasizing it too much. Long-term employees may not always be stellar ones, but they have been serving "well enough" for a long period of time. They are the core group of the department whose long-term work has contributed greatly to the success of the unit. Most nurses are average (by definition). We can't all be super-stars. Yes, the stars deserve some rewards -- but so do the average nurses who work competently and carry the load of the department over many years. You shouldn't have to "go the extra mile" to earn a few benefits. Doing a good job over a long period of time should also earn you some rewards.

If those "average, mediocre" nurses all left ... it wouldn't be "all the better." It would be a horrible crisis. Yes, there are some bad nurses out there who need counseling, training, stimulation to improve, etc. But a long term nurse who has served adequately for years deserves to be treated with respect and helped to improve if necessary so that he/she can continue to work with dignity.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

35 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement? They are no more valuable than a new hire. I want them to leave.

To say that are no more valuable than a new hire appears to show your lack of experience in the field.

[1MoreCoffee, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN, NP]

23 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

They dependably show up, give quality care and work as a team member that's what good they are. All of those things contribute in a meaningful way. the extras are just that...extra. Some people don't have the skill to teach or lead and that isn't their fault but you think they should be punished? Others may have other obligations like families or elderly parents that don't allow them to spend any extra time at work . They should be discredited? You have an overly harsh view of the world and are beginning to sound bitter. Perhaps you need to find a different job that suits your keen sense of justice.

Ah, but if I show up, am dependable, do a good job, etc., am I to be punished because I am new? I have a family, responsibilities and yes, a life as well. If I do more, why shouldn’t I get credit? It is the old guard (like you, perhaps?) that sounds jaded. I love my job. I don’t need to look elsewhere. Sometimes the current standard is just outdated.

[JadedCPN, BSN, RN]

1 minute ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

Ah, but if I show up, am dependable, do a good job, etc., am I to be punished because I am new? I have a family, responsibilities and yes, a life as well. If I do more, why shouldn’t I get credit? It is the old guard (like you, perhaps?) that sounds jaded. I love my job. I don’t need to look elsewhere. Sometimes the current standard is just outdated.

How exactly would you be getting punished?