Seniority and preferential scheduling

Updated:   Published

When I interviewed for my job, I was told that it was mandatory to work rotating shifts (either 7a-7:30p or 7p-7:30a), with a certain number of weekend shifts required per schedule period. The requirement being two weeks of nights and four weeks of days per six-week schedule period. I recently found out that certain nurses do not have to fulfill the night shift requirement, because they have seniority. Our unit director and clinicians work no nights or weekends. Those with seniority also get preference when it comes to vacation schedules and holidays off.

Is this a common arrangement? Is this fair? I am new to nursing, so I do not have experience with the concept of seniority. It should be noted that no matter how many years of seniority you have in my hospital, if you transfer to another unit, you will move to the bottom of the pile. Is it fair then? I personally don't mind fulfilling the requirements but knowing that other people don't have to doesn't sit well with me. I feel that this policy should have been explained in the interview, at a minimum.

Specializes in Hematology Oncology.
3 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Funny, I don't see the term "seniority" in there at all.

Funny. You wrote it in response to the post below, written by me, that references senior nurses. ?

'I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.'

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hematology Oncology.
11 minutes ago, Kyla RN said:

The seniority vacation preference at my previous hospital job was one of the reasons I left inpatient. Don't get me wrong, I do think seniority nurses deserve some preferential. They have worked their butts off and have displayed loyalty to their employer. But I learned that there's different ways you can implement seniority vacation requests. At my previous employer, there was one large calendar and one at a time by seniority, each nurse would place ALL their vacation requests on the calendar for that quarter. One nurse could put down as much as 4 weeks off dispersed through the quarter before the lower tier nurses could even look. Then as a lower seniority nurse, it'd be my turn and all holidays were taken, most summertime weeks were gone. We, the newer nurses, were left with random scraps of vacation slots time every single year. Couldn't fly down to see my family for the holidays for years- I personally was fed up with it. On the other hand, my friend at another hospital nearby worked in a slightly different system. One by one, seniority nurse #1 and so on could pick ONE week-1.5 week slot of vacation at a time, then move down the list of nurses. Once the end of the line was done, it would start back up at the top with nurse #1 who would get to pick their second slot. I think this system promoted a more level playing ground where newer nurses still had a chance of getting some slot they were hoping for, but simultaneously seniority was respected.

We do our vacations as you describe in your second example. I am fine with it. I respect the senior nurses, and I have no issue with them getting first pick. The way our schedules work, there is plenty of opportunity to schedule yourself off for 4-5 days at a time throughout the year.

3
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ED, ICU, PSYCH, PP, CEN.

I don't know how long you've been a nurse, but from what I've read so far I think you may be in for a rude awakening in nursing.

That said, the great thing about nursing is so many types of jobs, locations, hours, group dynamics. As you go through your career you will see a lot and learn a lot. Hopefully, at some point you will find the place that's almost perfect for you. There is no "perfect" place.

Thankfully I am in the almost perfect spot and intend to be there for a long time.

7
Up Vote Up Vote ×
24 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

Funny. You wrote it in response to the post below, written by me, that references senior nurses. ?

'I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.'

Nooo. You need to re-check the sequence. It was in direct response to this quote where you discredited anyone doesn't "go the extra mile".

3 hours ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×
1 hour ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

Rewarding years of service over performance serves as a disincentive to be productive. If someone works for me for 10, 20, 30 years and doesn't do anything more than show up, I don't want them on my team. What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement? They are no more valuable than a new hire. I want them to leave.

But you are pretending that years of service and excellent performance are often or usually mutually exclusive.

According to your system of judgment, what exactly has the new grad done for anyone besides showed up and asked for a job--all other things being equal? And they haven't even proved a willingness to do it for any length of time (yet), at that.

You are not participating in this discussion in a forthright manner. First you posted that you found it unfair that you were not notified that certain others are not expected to do the same things that you agreed to do. Then you said that what you were really concerned about were the safety issues related to not having experienced people on the night shift.

Now you are saying that experience itself is nothing.

The way you are making experienced nurses out to be, I would like to circle back to the beginning and ask why you give a hoot if these experienced lazy-*** losers aren't on your shift! Count your blessings and be happy that you are surrounded by stellar new rockstars!

Come on now.

I agree with you that rewarding *only* seniority/years of service could reward mediocrity just as it could reward excellence.

But if you haven't yet observed that climbing a "clinical ladder" (by doing the sorts of things you apparently admire) also doesn't define excellence any more than longevity doesn't define excellence, you're really in for an extremely rude awakening.

11
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hematology Oncology.
31 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Nooo. You need to re-check the sequence. It was in direct response to this quote where you discredited anyone doesn't "go the extra mile".

This is getting a bit tedious.

1. You are referring to an excerpt. In fact, the excerpt you quoted is plainly visible in what I just posted to you, but I include it again, with emphasis. Note the part about seniority, as I referenced before.

I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.

2. Honoring a system that gives preference to those who go the extra mile does NOT discredit those who do not go the extra mile.

Honestly, I feel as though you are trying to misinterpret what is plainly stated, just for the sake of argument. Sometimes you are wrong, Wuzzie. Own it.

1
Up Vote Up Vote ×
15 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

This is getting a bit tedious.

1. You are referring to an excerpt. In fact, the excerpt you quoted is plainly visible in what I just posted to you, but I include it again, with emphasis. Note the part about seniority, as I referenced before.

I disagree. The concept of seniority is exclusively about longevity. Nobody distinguishes whether or not the employee has done well or not. Honoring seniority *may* reward excellence, however it rewards mediocrity as well. A better system is to give preference to those who have been promoted due to merit, those who precept, those who go the extra mile and do something more besides just lasting longer on the unit than other people.

If rewarding those who actually perform better makes those who just have more years of service mad and they leave, all the better.

2. Honoring a system that gives preference to those who go the extra mile does NOT discredit those who do not go the extra mile.

Honestly, I feel as though you are trying to misinterpret what is plainly stated, just for the sake of argument. Sometimes you are wrong, Wuzzie. Own it.

I would..if I was but I'm not. You have clearly stated that those (with seniority or not) who do not go the extra mile have no value. You have gone so far as to say that they provide sub-par patient care. And the post above is not the post you previously referenced.

2 hours ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

Rewarding years of service over performance serves as a disincentive to be productive. If someone works for me for 10, 20, 30 years and doesn't do anything more than show up, I don't want them on my team. What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement? They are no more valuable than a new hire. I want them to leave. 

2
Up Vote Up Vote ×

And before you go there (because I know you will)...I precept, am a nurse mentor, am on three committees within our shared-governance program, I formally teach, am a peer-resource guide and an SME in my area of specialty. I work with a guy who has 15 years on me who does nothing extra but he shows up to work and works his butt off providing excellent patient care and support to his co-workers. He has earned every seniority perk he has and I would never, ever consider it unfair.

12
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med-Surg, NICU.

Everything except the forced rotation system seems fair. I do not believe in rotating shifts and would quit if forced to rotate as it is extremely unhealthy to be swinging back and forth between shifts.

4
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hematology Oncology.
16 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

I would..if I was but I'm not. You have clearly stated that those (with seniority or not) who do not go the extra mile have no value. You have gone so far as to say that they provide sub-par patient care.

I was referring to people who just show up, and I stand by that assertion. I said I didn't want them on my team. I said they were no more valuable than a new hire, not that they had no value. Why do you continue to misquote me and be argumentative?

Rewarding years of service over performance serves as a disincentive to be productive. If someone works for me for 10, 20, 30 years and doesn't do anything more than show up, I don't want them on my team. What good is their experience if they don't teach others, if they don't serve in a leadership capacity, or if they don't contribute to quality improvement? They are no more valuable than a new hire. I want them to leave.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
4 minutes ago, 1MoreCoffee said:

Why do you continue to misquote me and be argumentative?

I directly quoted you so how can I be misquoting you. In this post you defined "just showing up" as not teaching, not serving in a leadership capacity and not contributing to quality improvement. So what exactly do you mean by "just showing up" because it seems to be evolving now that you are getting push-back from just about everyone.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm being argumentative.

7
Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hematology Oncology.
14 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

I directly quoted you so how can I be misquoting you. In this post you defined "just showing up" as not teaching, not serving in a leadership capacity and not contributing to quality improvement. So what exactly do you mean by "just showing up" because it seems to be evolving now that you are getting push-back from just about everyone.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm being argumentative.

I never said that those who did not go the extra mile had no value.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion