scope of practice issues for CNA'S/LVN'S

NicInNC, CNA · Jun 13, 2006

Has anyone had problems with nurses/supervisors expecting something outside of your scope of practice? I've heard of it happening at the LTC I left when I went to LVN school. One CNA told me she was expected to pass meds to someone, told the nurse she couldn't because it was outside of her scope of practice in CA, and got wrote up for pt. neglect by the DON. She quit after that.

It happens ALL the time at my work.

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · Jun 13, 2006

In Oregon a CNA can pass medications in certain facilities IF they are trained and overseen by an RN. Our CNA's went through 3 days of 8 hour classes before even being watched put meds in a cup (RN had to give). Then if they passed that, and were able to tell all the 'rights' of the medication they were on a three month trial for med pass. After that it was q 3 month testing for all CNA's, unless there was a mistake and they may have to go through the course again.

Now, considering that I don't think all this was done for that CNA...it was OUTSIDE her scope for sure, and therefore not punishable in my book!!!!! Neglect..oh please...neglect would be that Nurse who would let an untrained CNA give a medication to a patient!

squeakykitty · Jun 13, 2006

In Oregon a CNA can pass medications in certain facilities IF they are trained and overseen by an RN. Our CNA's went through 3 days of 8 hour classes before even being watched put meds in a cup (RN had to give). Then if they passed that, and were able to tell all the 'rights' of the medication they were on a three month trial for med pass. After that it was q 3 month testing for all CNA's, unless there was a mistake and they may have to go through the course again.
Now, considering that I don't think all this was done for that CNA...it was OUTSIDE her scope for sure, and therefore not punishable in my book!!!!! Neglect..oh please...neglect would be that Nurse who would let an untrained CNA give a medication to a patient!

In California, CNA's can't do meds at all, not even putting Ben-Gay on anyones sore muscles. I think the same way, that nurse should have been written up, not the CNA. I did suggest maybe going to the state on that. I don't know if the CNA did, but in the five months since that happened, there was a new DON at that LTC.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jun 13, 2006

Had a nurse once ask me (when i was an aide) to give a pt. his pills, simply because she didn't want to have to G and G for an isolation room. I refused, she got huffy, and i said "well i can always ask the supervisor to be sure." She got over being huffy.

chadash · Jun 13, 2006

Oh yes! it happens, but you just have to stand firm. Don't ever do something you are not qualified to do, or are not licensed to do. you could hurt some poor soul!

And the truth is, the person wanting you to "oh just go ahead and do it for me, I am busy and you know how..." will be the first one to send you up the river when it hits the fan.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Jun 13, 2006

And the truth is, the person wanting you to "oh just go ahead and do it for me, I am busy and you know how..." will be the first one to send you up the river when it hits the fan.

And who's to say they aren't asking you to do it as a set-up?

chadash · Jun 13, 2006

And who's to say they aren't asking you to do it as a set-up?

Never even though of that! Yikes!

squeakykitty · Jun 13, 2006

And who's to say they aren't asking you to do it as a set-up?

Wow, I never thought of that. And if things hit the fan, they probably would send you up the river to try to cover their butts, but I think the facility could still get fined.

buildingmyfaith57 · Jun 14, 2006

o boy do i know that. i was ask to do a tube feeding when i know and they know i wasn't train for it or was i license for it. the things people do just to get someone out the door. it is really sad.

Retired R.N. · Jun 14, 2006

Has anyone had problems with nurses/supervisors expecting something outside of your scope of practice? I've heard of it happening at the LTC I left when I went to LVN school. One CNA told me she was expected to pass meds to someone, told the nurse she couldn't because it was outside of her scope of practice in CA, and got wrote up for pt. neglect by the DON. She quit after that.

Wouldn't it be nice if there were a standardized national set of regulations regarding the education and duties of CNAs?

chadash · Jun 14, 2006

o boy do i know that. i was ask to do a tube feeding when i know and they know i wasn't train for it or was i license for it. the things people do just to get someone out the door. it is really sad.

Arblunt, did they ask you to do a tube feeding and then hang you for it?

grrrrrrr! I sense you have been through some hard times.

And Retired RN, I appreciate your posts and your perspective from years of experience. I think we have gained a lot in technology, but have lost some of the teamwork. There is just so much turnover and whatnot.