RUDE pt and spouse=everyone fired from care!

ANnot4me · May 26, 2006

I have always wondered why nurses can not use bullying, harrassment, and workplace hostility policies against patients and their families. I am sure that if we really looked into it, we could. Are we not entitled to a hostililty free workplace no matter who the source? If someone called me a b-word at work, I don't care who they are (unless it is a drunk or mentally-ill person), something would be done. One of the things I hate most about nursing is the abuse slung at us. What is even worse is that we take it as if it is somehow excusable. I have lost firends and family members and have never found it necessary to threaten anyone's job or to call them names and believe me, I am no saint.

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · May 26, 2006

I have always wondered why nurses can not use bullying, harrassment, and workplace hostility policies against patients and their families. I am sure that if we really looked into it, we could. Are we not entitled to a hostililty free workplace no matter who the source? If someone called me a b-word at work, I don't care who they are (unless it is a drunk or mentally-ill person), something would be done. One of the things I hate most about nursing is the abuse slung at us. What is even worse is that we take it as if it is somehow excusable. I have lost firends and family members and have never found it necessary to threaten anyone's job or to call them names and believe me, I am no saint.

I have actually used that in regards to things being horrible in the workplace. I simply pointed to the HUGE board of labor laws they are required to post about harassment and remind them! Yes, I have gotten in trouble for even suggesting it...but they kind of knew me and if they threatened termination or what not they would have been reported for sure! I was lucky...certain things changed...but not enough, and I did wind up leaving that facility...

melrina75 · May 27, 2006

thank you all for your suggestions -i plan to bring up to interdisciplinary team on monday - i really hope they'll help!! everyone's just on the edge and can't stand it anymore!!

leslie :-D · May 27, 2006

i just don't understand the rationale of firing nurses to placate a pt/family. if mgmt allows that, then it would seem unlikely they would support any of the suggestions, no matter how reasonable.

after a reasonable amt of time and energy spent in trying to appease this pt., there comes a point that clearly, enough is enough, and transfer them (stat) to another facility.

i'm still flabbergasted that nurses got fired!!

leslie

fergus51 · May 27, 2006

I don't think the nurses lost there jobs. They were just stopped from looking after that woman.

Altra, BSN, RN · May 27, 2006

I don't think the nurses lost their jobs. They were just stopped from looking after that woman.

Yes, that's how I interpreted this too -- the family refused care from multiple staff members.

ARLadyRN · May 27, 2006

I've been on the other side. Patients do get tired of having to explain exactly how treatments, turning, dressing changes etc. need to be done. It seemed that everyone did it differently when they came into my room. They all ask the same questions over and over. There is no excuse for yelling and firing though, calling people names that's childish. You also have to put yourself in their position, how awful it would be not to be able to use your limbs. They are also very tired and people get irritable when they are so tired. A care conference needs to be done and then go into the room and discuss it with them in a non-confrontational way.

leslie :-D · May 27, 2006

I don't think the nurses lost there jobs. They were just stopped from looking after that woman.

i reread the 1st post.

whoops. :smackingf

Rnandsoccermom · May 27, 2006

Why is the prognosis poor? Many GB pts make a full recovery and most have a return to function of at least most of their abilities.
As far as firings: this should simply not be allowed. That is a failure of your management team. Manipulative behavior is only allowed when it is tolerated.
If I were the manager and a family member called my staff a name at the station, they'd be escorted off the premises and asked not to return unless/until they leave the attitude and warned that if it happened again, they would be persona non grata for the duration.
And in no case would they be allowed to 'fire' individual staff members. 'Firing' staff is tantamount to 'firing' the facility. At THAT point, they need to find an accepting hospital for transfer.
If that were me, I'd sure work as hard as possible to be on the 'fired' list. If management wants to allow manipulative behavior, I'd rather be on the 'fired' end of that behavior.
~faith,
Timothy.

I agree.

My standard line after name calling is "you are not at home and we are not out on the street. I am a professional and I don't speak like that to you. I don't not appreciate being spoken to like that either. I understand that this is a difficult situation for you, but we are not here to play games with you, I don't have time for that. This is a hospital."

And see how it progresses from there. That usually works and at LEAST reminds them that this is the way it is and lets just calm down.

DusktilDawn · May 27, 2006

I've been on the other side. Patients do get tired of having to explain exactly how treatments, turning, dressing changes etc. need to be done. It seemed that everyone did it differently when they came into my room. They all ask the same questions over and over. There is no excuse for yelling and firing though, calling people names that's childish. You also have to put yourself in their position, how awful it would be not to be able to use your limbs. They are also very tired and people get irritable when they are so tired. A care conference needs to be done and then go into the room and discuss it with them in a non-confrontational way.

These people are a lot more than just tired and irritable. They're going through a grieving process right now, their whole life/lifestyle will never be the same again. In fact it sounds like they are not coping with the situation and taking out that inability to cope on the staff in a hostile and adversarial manner. Their behavior is over the line and affects the staff negatively, which in turn affects the care of the patient involved (really, who wants to have to deal with this patient and their SO), and in turn affecting all patients on that unit by creating a hostile situation for the staff. Those not "fired" feel stuck having to put with their behavior (not a good situation for the patient or the staff) without a break or "day off" since they've "fired" so many of the staff. This kind of situation affects morale on a unit negatively, which in turn affects ALL people (including patients) on the unit. Other patient's have the care they recieve affected because this patient and their SO create enough fuss/drama to enusure their needs/wants take priority over all other patients, hardly fair to the other patients who have as much of a right to receive proper and adequate care. In fact, bringing up counselling for the patient and the family is another thing that could be brought up in a multi-disciplinary meeting. No one is disputing that this is an awful situation for this patient and their family, all the more reason for some sort of therapeutic counselling being necessary.

BTW, I will agree with other posters who stated that management should not have allowed this situation to progress to the point it has. It makes the situation that much harder to be dealt with effectively. It is now harder to set limits in regards to inappropriate behavior, especially since they've basically been "rewarded" for it in the past. They may also see ANY intervention done at this point as confrontation, now matter how diplomatically it is presented.

ZASHAGALKA, RN · May 27, 2006

I agree.
My standard line after name calling is "you are not at home and we are not out on the street. I am a professional and I don't speak like that to you. I don't not appreciate being spoken to like that either. I understand that this is a difficult situation for you, but we are not here to play games with you, I don't have time for that. This is a hospital."
And see how it progresses from there. That usually works and at LEAST reminds them that this is the way it is and lets just calm down.

"Your behavior is unacceptable. If it persists, I will have no choice but to ask you to leave."

If that doesn't work, I add, "If I have to ask you to leave, I will have no choice but to ask security to see to it that you DO leave."

~faith,

Timothy.

CseMgr1, ASN, RN · May 28, 2006

Why is the prognosis poor? Many GB pts make a full recovery and most have a return to function of at least most of their abilities.
As far as firings: this should simply not be allowed. That is a failure of your management team. Manipulative behavior is only allowed when it is tolerated.
If I were the manager and a family member called my staff a name at the station, they'd be escorted off the premises and asked not to return unless/until they leave the attitude and warned that if it happened again, they would be persona non grata for the duration.
And in no case would they be allowed to 'fire' individual staff members. 'Firing' staff is tantamount to 'firing' the facility. At THAT point, they need to find an accepting hospital for transfer.
If that were me, I'd sure work as hard as possible to be on the 'fired' list. If management wants to allow manipulative behavior, I'd rather be on the 'fired' end of that behavior.
~faith,
Timothy.

Once again, you have hit the NAIL on the head, my friend.

And I, myself am growing increasingly weary of Management's tolerance of this kind of behavior also, in order to score brownie points with Press Ganey and the rest of the bureaucratic idiots who wouldn't know what a manipulative patient was, if they were made to wear a bedpan atop their heads and run up and down the halls whistling "Dixie" by one, in order to keep themselves from being "fired", too.

I have more than once been reported to my superiors for supposedly unprofessional behavior, after I had had enough of being threatened and cussed out by mean, crude and rude patients and family members as the poster of this thread has described because they didn't get what they damn well knew what they weren't entitled to, to begin with. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: NURSES HAVE FEELINGS, TOO! :angryfire