RN-BSN SCAM

[elpnla]

Many ADN-BSN online programs tried to deceive students into believing that they can get their BSN from ADN in 13 months or less. That's a lie and false advertisement. They are not telling the whole story.

For example, University of Texas at Arlington advertises this past spring that you can get your degree from ADN to BSN in 13 months. After you enrolled and pay their high tuition rates, they want you to take from them American History I and II, Texas history, and other courses that have nothing to do with Nursing. You can take these same courses from Community Colleges in California at 1/6 their cost, but if you do they may or may not accept them for credit. For example, I have a friend who took US History from a community college. UTA does not accept them for transfer credit. Their Academic Advisors are trained to do what is good for business, and not what is good for you, the student. Be careful and do not fall for their traps! They want you to stay longer in their school, and pay for their courses that nobody wants to take, such as political science, and so forth

I heard that Excelsior College gives you 35 BSN credits for your NCLEX. They don't give you the run around treatment. They are located in Albany, New York. Their tuition is a little higher, but you can graduate sooner with no hassle and stumbling blocks.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Some recent fm supporting data:

Yakusheva, O., Lindrooth, R., & Weiss, M. (2014). Economic evaluation of the 80% baccalaureate nurse workforce recommendation: a patient-level analysis. Medical Care, 52(10), 864-869.

Blegen, M. A., Goode, C. J., Park, S. H., Vaughn, T., & Spetz, J. (2013). Baccalaureate education in nursing and patient outcomes. Journal of Nursing Administration, 43(2), 89-94.

Chicago

Cho, E., Sloane, D. M., Kim, E. Y., Kim, S., Choi, M., Yoo, I. Y., ... & Aiken, L. H. (2015). Effects of nurse staffing, work environments, and education on patient mortality: an observational study. International journal of nursing studies, 52(2), 535-542.

Yakusheva, O., Lindrooth, R., & Weiss, M. (2014). Nurse value‐added and patient outcomes in acute care. Health services research, 49(6), 1767-1786.

[avengingspirit1]

For kicks I just reviewed all your posts and you have never once provided a peer reviewed source. You have several times linked to blogs and op-eds. You tried to cite another forum post several times as evidence.

You have never provided a name to any influential person you continue to quote.

Perhaps the best example of why BSNs have better outcomes is that they understand the scientific process. Take some research classes, learn to understand the scientific process, and then get back to us. So we don't keep "wasting your time" with the dozen international studies that have been consistent in their outcomes. Peddle your pseudoscience and conspiracy elsewhere.

Did you get let go from your nursing job and you blame it on the push for the BSN?

And this coming from someone who may have had their NP program partly if not all paid for without having to pay back loans like most of us. On allnurses, I have given you sources from Time, The Standard, Nurse.com, The AACC just to name a few. Again, the only garbage you have tried to peddle was from those organizations that stood to benefit. You obviously have not read the critiques of the Aiken study because that is the biggest piece of pseudo junk science out there next to global climate change. i was told that if I oppose the BSN push, these representing academia would come out like flies swarming to excrement. The behaviors of yourself and those associated with big education was not only predictable but expected. i have been talking to those in the media but I don't have a staff or starry-eyed students i can get to do some of my work. So I can't devote all of my time doing research like you as I have to make a living. Everything I sad was the truth and you all know it which is why you keep responding on this site to do damage control. I'll keep ding what I have to do and you can too. We'll see who who has more to lose in the long-run. Two things I know for certain, people are sick of big government and sick of over-priced education.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

And this coming from someone who may have had their NP program partly if not all paid for without having to pay back loans like most of us.

I was on an academic scholarship for half of my masters tuition. My doctorate was done largely using academic credits from precepting NP students. What's your point? My personal education, which took a tremendous amount of work and sacrifice, has nothing to do with the overwhelming scientific data being presented as I had no role in any of it. Your personal story I bet does play into this little discussion as you only post anecdotal "evidence".

On allnurses, I have given you sources from Time, The Standard, Nurse.com, The AACC just to name a few.

Exactly. Those are editorials. They are not scientific studies and are not peer-reviewed. They are opinion pieces. This is where classes like research methods benefit nurses.

Again, the only garbage you have tried to peddle was from those organizations that stood to benefit.

Right above this post I just cited five more multi-national studies that have been published in the past 2 years. They are all peer-reviewed studies.

You obviously have not read the critiques of the Aiken study because that is the biggest piece of pseudo junk science out there next to global climate change.

This statement is just more evidence of your conspiracy theorist bias.

i was told that if I oppose the BSN push, these representing academia would come out like flies swarming to excrement.

By who? And in this analogy you are the what....

The behaviors of yourself and those associated with big education was not only predictable but expected. i have been talking to those in the media but I don't have a staff or starry-eyed students i can get to do some of my work. So I can't devote all of my time doing research like you as I have to make a living.

Yes, the behaviors of scientists are always predictable by looking at the data. What exactly is your job? My job is clinical practice, not academia or research.

Everything I sad was the truth and you all know it which is why you keep responding on this site to do damage control.

Yes, they ('big education') pays me my shill bucks to confront pseudoscience on the internets. You have done zero "damage" and you have flapped your arms and shouted about your opinion but have spoken not fact or truth, at least in a scientific sense.

We'll see who who has more to lose in the long-run. Two things I know for certain, people are sick of big government and sick of over-priced education.

I still have my job, it pays really well, and I love it. Plus the shill bucks.

People are also sick of chemtrails and vaccine-population-control.

[avengingspirit1]

I was on an academic scholarship for half of my masters tuition. My doctorate was done largely using academic credits from precepting NP students. What's your point? My personal education, which took a tremendous amount of work and sacrifice, has nothing to do with the overwhelming scientific data being presented as I had no role in any of it. Your personal story I bet does play into this little discussion as you only post anecdotal "evidence".

Exactly. Those are editorials. They are not scientific studies and are not peer-reviewed. They are opinion pieces. This is where classes like research methods benefit nurses.

Right above this post I just cited five more multi-national studies that have been published in the past 2 years. They are all peer-reviewed studies.

This statement is just more evidence of your conspiracy theorist bias.

By who? And in this analogy you are the what....

Yes, the behaviors of scientists are always predictable by looking at the data. What exactly is your job? My job is clinical practice, not academia or research.

Yes, they ('big education') pays me my shill bucks to confront pseudoscience on the internets. You have done zero "damage" and you have flapped your arms and shouted about your opinion but have spoken not fact or truth, at least in a scientific sense.

I still have my job, it pays really well, and I love it. Plus the shill bucks.

People are also sick of chemtrails and vaccine-population-control.

My point is people like who are telling others they must go back to school to write APA papers on nursing theory are those who don't have to pay for their education and probably had friends on the committees to get them into those scholarship programs. Talk about being a hypocrite, I pointed out to you the very facts that were in the study and prove it was never based on science or real world conditions for that matter and you either denied them or refused to comment. And those facts came from analyzing the study itself. You're denying the very thing you think you're trying to defend. Those sources I gave you over the last three years came from published articles in the publications I have mentioned. The Aiken study has no redemptive value except showing it is wise to have surgery in a hospital with board certified surgeons but has nothing to do with nursing. The authors know it which why they refused to talk to the media. I can't give too much info so as not to identify myself. I don't see you people willing to identify yourselves. By he way, at least one of those last references you provided were from the Faiken study. Again, you show nothing new. I'll have to check on the other two. The authors were given a lot of money by the AACN and other organizations to produce a fatally flawed piece of propaganda. Also while the study on staffing ratios and mortality rates was peer-reviewed, questions have been raised as to whether the publication on mortality rates and nursing education levels was actually peer-reviewed. That I need to look into further to see if there's anything to it. But all else I've said was true. If all they cared was nurses providing the best care possible, They wouldn't care what type of degree a nurse has as long as they stay competent with continuing education as mandated by law. But the AACN and big education don't make money from that. That is why they flunkies monitoring this site trying to keep the truth from people. So you do what you have to and so will I. My job is to get the info into a non-nursing media outlet for the general public. And I know you people are afraid of that as I was told by the head of a nursing organization. Again I will not give info that ill lead to my identify yet. Tell you academic elitist friends I've been threatened by a gang, had a weapon pointed in face, was on my near deathbed with emergency surgery, and took on another group of so-called elitists like yourselves by myself as I told my lawyer to stand down. So I am not afraid of a group of middle-aged women with cushy jobs and ample cabooses who are afraid of being displaced in this economy.

[msn10]

Sorry Tiffany, It is like watching an accident happen, you know you should look away, but it is just too shocking.

They wouldn't care what type of degree a nurse has as long as they stay competent with continuing education as mandated by law. But the AACN and big education don't make money from that.

Actually, that is the exact opposite. Who do you think creates CEU's? I have created 4 major ones. All funded by grants and we charge much less than the for-profit companies that do some of them because we use tax payer dollars when we create them so it is our privilege and responsibility to pass on the knowledge to our colleagues at an affordable cost. Every author creating learning opportunities for CEU's has at the bare minimum a BSN. Next...

That is why they flunkies monitoring this site trying to keep the truth from people. So you do what you have to and so will I. My job is to get the info into a non-nursing media outlet for the general public.

One, flunkies are people who don't graduate. Second, nothing cushy about a job in education or in advanced practice, but since you are in neither, you would not know. Lastly, the "references" you provided mean nothing without the title of the article. The only article that I could find through TIME suggested that nurses go and get their BSNs.Nursing Facts: Pay, College Degree, Gender Pay Gap

Please, go to the media. Maybe they can convince you that what you are trying to pass off as evidence is selective opinion giving. However, the major downfall for your attempt is that any reputable journalists has to do something your not doing, and that is looking at the evidence. No editor or producer likes retractions. Your "story" is non researched, non reliable, and your perception. That is not newsworthy, unless you are a Kardashian.

And I know you people are afraid

Never LESS afraid of anything…ever

[avengingspirit1]

Sorry Tiffany, It is like watching an accident happen, you know you should look away, but it is just too shocking.

Actually, that is the exact opposite. Who do you think creates CEU's? I have created 4 major ones. All funded by grants and we charge much less than the for-profit companies that do some of them because we use tax payer dollars when we create them so it is our privilege and responsibility to pass on the knowledge to our colleagues at an affordable cost. Every author creating learning opportunities for CEU's has at the bare minimum a BSN. Next...

One, flunkies are people who don't graduate. Second, nothing cushy about a job in education or in advanced practice, but since you are in neither, you would not know. Lastly, the "references" you provided mean nothing without the title of the article. The only article that I could find through TIME suggested that nurses go and get their BSNs.Nursing Facts: Pay, College Degree, Gender Pay Gap

Please, go to the media. Maybe they can convince you that what you are trying to pass off as evidence is selective opinion giving. However, the major downfall for your attempt is that any reputable journalists has to do something your not doing, and that is looking at the evidence. No editor or producer likes retractions. Your "story" is non researched, non reliable, and your perception. That is not newsworthy, unless you are a Kardashian.

Never LESS afraid of anything…ever

You and the Boston man selectively ignored every part of the fabrication that I picked apart. You ignore the opinions of real working nurses on the floor. I can can send you some, but i know you. This study which is a Clinton-like lie has been peddled for over 10 years now. Some people posting are not as smart as they think they are and have actually inadvertently proven my point. Nursing publications will not publish the truth as they make a lot money selling ad space to schools peddling these worthless degrees which will never make one a better nurse. Again show me a doctor or patient who says otherwise. You can't. And all you real nurses; be advised that the head of a state nurse's association made it clear that when they feel they have enough of you running back for BSN, they'll start trying to push the master's to keep tuition dollars flowing. The schools will pay Aiken or someone like her to put out another piece of propaganda just like they did before. You will be constantly in debt with scarce jobs in this healthcare market. Stop paying dues to these organizations as they don't give a damn about you.

Things may change in 2107 if some of the damages of Obamacare can be reversed or tempered. I have what I need from this site and am going to use some of the perversions from these people who think their the smartest in the room. I will keep working with the reporters I know to get this nonsense into the non-nursing mainstream media. So Boston and MSN10, do what you feel you need to do as will I. And yes I'm going to enjoy it.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

You didn't answer the questions, let me detail them for you:

You are very concerned with who we all paid for our degrees. Did you lose your job due to not having a BSN?

You mention you are "too busy" with your job. What is it that you do?

Do you believe in chemtrails?

[avengingspirit1]

You didn't answer the questions, let me detail them for you:

You are very concerned with who we all paid for our degrees. Did you lose your job due to not having a BSN?

You mention you are "too busy" with your job. What is it that you do?

Do you believe in chemtrails?

No to both Boston man. But I do believe that some people can be book smart in a select subject area but be ignorant, smug and venal when it comes to most other areas. Not mentioning anyone in particular. Not even sure what chem-trails are but it is historical fact that the U.S. government was researching weather manipulation as far back as WWII to create unfavorable conditions for the enemy. But since that would be outside your seemingly narrowed areas of so-called expertise, I wouldn't expect you would know that. I had you pegged three years ago; someone who they them-self or spouse works for academia and someone who didn't have to pay for their higher education.

So now I want to address the real hard-working nurses taking care of patient every day:

Nurses, you can all draw your own conclusions about the push for higher education; keeping in mind that only one side is saying that BSNs make better nurses. What I and others with common sense have always said that it is the experience and the nurse themselves that makes the nurse regardless of what program they graduated from. As long as they are competent, keeping up with their continuing education and keeping up with new technology and findings, that is what makes a good nurse. But self-serving people and institutions don't benefit from that. All nurse, BSNs ADNs and Diploma graduates have and continue to make major contributions to the profession. To say that any one type of education produces a better nurse has always been a lie spawned and perpetuated by those who stand to gain financially by driving nurses back into the high priced four year schools. I would ask that nurses take a good look at some of the major players driving the BSN push and who they're affiliated with: Linda Aiken, Patricia Bennett, Janet Haebler, Karen Ballard……………, then draw your own conclusions.

Below is an excellent critique of the Aiken study. I believe he was a nurse then became a researcher in biology. If it's not the right link, I'll try sending again.

Again, draw your own conclusions. A fabrication will only last so long before the truth comes out. I'll get in front of the general public on way or the other. But trust me; if you read between the lines, those perpetuating this fabrication for self-serving reasons are very afraid of the truth coming out. Take it from a street smart person who knows human nature.

https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/critique-of-study-157387.html

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I had you pegged three years ago; someone who they them-self or spouse works for academia and someone who didn't have to pay for their higher education.

I actually paid quite a bit, probably more than you did for your education. It was by no means "free".

You can make as many personal attacks as you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that on one side is a plethora of scientific evidence and on the other side is you and your anecdotes.

Calling the full scope of scientific data a "lie" because it doesn't support your agenda does not make it true. You cited a forum post as your evidence. That forum post addressed concerns about a single study; those concerns noted are conjecture, they are not substantiated. This data has been replicated more than a dozen times both nationally and internationally and published in major peer-reviewed publications. The OP of that post went on, in 2007, to say "this flawed and un-reproducible study is worthless" yet it has been reproduced more than a dozen times by different authors in different countries using different designs.

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

Avengingspirit,

I learned about research methods and how to understand a study in my BSN program.

Where did you learn how to interpret scientific studies in order to refute their findings? Just wondering.

[avengingspirit1]

I actually paid quite a bit, probably more than you did for your education. It was by no means "free".

You can make as many personal attacks as you'd like, but it doesn't change the fact that on one side is a plethora of scientific evidence and on the other side is you and your anecdotes.

Calling the full scope of scientific data a "lie" because it doesn't support your agenda does not make it true. You cited a forum post as your evidence. That forum post addressed concerns about a single study; those concerns noted are conjecture, they are not substantiated. This data has been replicated more than a dozen times both nationally and internationally and published in major peer-reviewed publications. The OP of that post went on, in 2007, to say "this flawed and un-reproducible study is worthless" yet it has been reproduced more than a dozen times by different authors in different countries using different designs.

The Aiken and report and everything related to it were just promotional pieces backed and funded by the very institutions that stood to benefit. No amount of academic BS jargon will change that fact. That researcher hit the nail on the head with his critique and people like you can't stand that. Again, I'll do what I must. And you're right; the same phony data was laundered and recycled to be used again in many other unscientific printings that would have made P.T. Barnum proud.

[avengingspirit1]

If anyone has any doubts as to whether JAMA could be politicized or corrupted, look at the below link. Obama is not a scientist and has had no science education or training. To allow this man to subjectively tout his policy in what was once a reputable scientific publication shows us what JAMA has become. This has to be one of the most unscientific pieces published in JAMA since the Aiken fallacy. We can only wonder what they got in return for publishing the Aiken fabrication about nurse education levels and mortality rates. The conclusion that BSNs save more lives and are better nurses is an outright deception. Anyone who believes this this deception should also believe that someone with a doctorate in nursing would provide the ultimate in patient care. Some deceptions go on for 15, 20 lies before they are exposed. I'm not giving this one that long given the student loan debt issues and the desire for cost effective ways to allow people to be educated in a profession. Associates and diploma programs do that in an excellent way without putting nurses into extreme financial debt.

Obama is not a scientist. JAMA shouldn't pretend he is - LA Times