Rethink my career path: PharmD VS PMH-NP

core0 · Aug 25, 2009

Decided... PharmD. Right now. I am either wanting to go into academia, research.
I want both degrees but I can't. At least, I have made a decision.

Its probably a little late for you but there is this:

PharmD/Physican's Assistant Program

Primary care practitioners are in high demand. Physician Assistants (PA's) and Advanced Nurse Practitioner's (ANP's) are being promoted as primary care providers and physician extenders in the new models for delivering health care services. Pharmacists can deliver primary care and are the health care professionals found most often outside metropolitan areas. Pharmacists alone can reach 30% of all rural patients who don't have access to a primary care physician. With 6-plus years of education, steeped in pharmacotherapy, pharmacy education provides a solid foundation for much of what is termed primary care.

The School of Pharmacy has joined with the

MEDEX Northwest Physician Assistant Program at the University of Washington, School of Medicine to coordinate the development of a joint degree program to produce a practitioner that is prepared to sit for both the Pharmacy and Physician Assistant National Boards. More information about the MEDEX program can be found on their website. Students interested in this program should contact Dr. Allan Ellsworth, 206/598-5618, for more information.

David Carpenter, PA-C

oohnurse · Aug 26, 2009

Its probably a little late for you but there is this:
PharmD/Physican's Assistant Program
Primary care practitioners are in high demand. Physician Assistants (PA's) and Advanced Nurse Practitioner's (ANP’s) are being promoted as primary care providers and physician extenders in the new models for delivering health care services.......................
David Carpenter, PA-C

Thanks, David, for the info. My school doesn't have PharmD/PA program. I would have enrolled if the program existed... because of differences in pharmacy courses from, it is difficult to transfer from my program to that particular program that has the combined program without starting over or repeating courses.

Actually, I was thinking about continuing in NP program after graduation "IF" (big if ) the pharmacy residency is too competitive to get in or I can't get a position I want. It's a better alternative than most pharmacy jobs where the knowledge is significantly under-utilized. Hopefully, NP program won't be all converted to DNP by the time I graduate. :) well... at least, I have a fallback plan.

karma482 · Sep 7, 2009

I say...if you were lucky enough to get accepted to pharmacy school, stick with it! I've been trying to get into a PharmD program since the year 2000, and chose nursing as a 2nd profession, and spend every day of my life regretting not getting better grades my 1st yr of college. i am now a nurse with a BSN contemplating finally applying to pharmacy again, or possibly NP program.

good luck!

oohnurse · Oct 31, 2009

Its probably a little late for you but there is this:
PharmD/Physican's Assistant Program David Carpenter, PA-C

PharmD/FNP dual program. Seem like I am not only one that think this way.

http://www.uhh.hawaii.edu/news/press/release/854

ruralnurs · Nov 1, 2009

as an fnp and currently post master student psych np (was a psych nurse for 5 years) i have an opinion. i realize you have made your decision and this is a bit old, but others may search this site and find this info. i see people choosing psych np for lots of reasons, they don't like to do paps, they don't want to deal with kids, they think psych np as less likely to pull call, they like to talk to people and give advice, you name it.

i see on the midwife boards they refer what they do to as "a calling" and i see mental health care as like that. if you just have an interest in therapy or don't want to do paps you will likely not make a very good psych np. can you do the job, prescribe meds and be financially successful? yes. but you still may not be a good psych np.

you stated in one post, "my decision to apply to pharmacy is the combination of seeking the feeling of accomplishment...."

that is not a typical feeling in mental health, or not in the sense that many people experience. one awesome psychiatrist i knew said this, "i can't fix these people, i am just here to walk the journey with them"

we all hear about "non-compliant" or "non-adherent", understand that is the standard in mental health. and depending on where you work, you may be just a pill pusher. you may see people for 15 minutes, long enough to make sure they are not having serious side effects or the voices are not back and that is it for 3 months, till you see them for another 15 minutes. if you are in a private practice that you can have more time it may be different but we all know how the health care system is and the days of the psychiatrist (or psych np) sitting for an hour with a patient doing therapy is long gone, at least in most areas.

i love what i do, but again it is a calling. it takes a special person to be a good psych provider and it takes more than an interest in psychology.

if anyone is truly interested in psych np, find a state hospital because that is the sickest of the sick people and work there for a year or two before you make you decision.

good luck

elkpark · Nov 1, 2009

as an fnp and currently post master student psych np (was a psych nurse for 5 years) i have an opinion. i realize you have made your decision and this is a bit old, but others may search this site and find this info. i see people choosing psych np for lots of reasons, they don't like to do paps, they don't want to deal with kids, they think psych np as less likely to pull call, they like to talk to people and give advice, you name it.
i see on the midwife boards they refer what they do to as "a calling" and i see mental health care as like that. if you just have an interest in therapy or don't want to do paps you will likely not make a very good psych np. can you do the job, prescribe meds and be financially successful? yes. but you still may not be a good psych np.
you stated in one post, "my decision to apply to pharmacy is the combination of seeking the feeling of accomplishment...."
that is not a typical feeling in mental health, or not in the sense that many people experience. one awesome psychiatrist i knew said this, "i can't fix these people, i am just here to walk the journey with them"
we all hear about "non-compliant" or "non-adherent", understand that is the standard in mental health. and depending on where you work, you may be just a pill pusher. you may see people for 15 minutes, long enough to make sure they are not having serious side effects or the voices are not back and that is it for 3 months, till you see them for another 15 minutes. if you are in a private practice that you can have more time it may be different but we all know how the health care system is and the days of the psychiatrist (or psych np) sitting for an hour with a patient doing therapy is long gone, at least in most areas.
i love what i do, but again it is a calling. it takes a special person to be a good psych provider and it takes more than an interest in psychology.
if anyone is truly interested in psych np, find a state hospital because that is the sickest of the sick people and work there for a year or two before you make you decision.
good luck

thank you -- excellent post, and v. valid points.

soccurgurl903 · Feb 17, 2010

Hi. I'm gonna try to give my two cents without being judgemental/pushy/cocky/etc. I'm a pharmacist. I graduated with my PharmD when I was 23 (last year) and I'm currently doing a clinical pharmacy residency (PGY1). In my opinion, you just need to decide what you want to do, and go for it! I don't wanna be the "mom" of the group, but if you set your mind to it and want it bad enough, it will happen. It takes a certain dose of motivation/ambition and leadership on your part.

It sounds like you have made your decision, which is good, but I'm not sure how much thought/research/experience went into it (no offense!). I commend you, as I obviously believe pharmacy is a great choice! I echo the comments of others that talking to people first hand about their experiences is good, as well as shadowing people. What I think can be even more important is researching for yourself and seeing what your options are. I got lucky with that. I was undecided up until my senior year of high school concerning what I wanted to do with my life. My advanced chemistry professor suggested pharmacy to me, I did my homework, and landed my near dream job. My only complaint? The hours put in as a resident! But I'm almost through with that and will forever carry that training and be better off for it.

I also knew that I didn't want to work retail, or hospital for that matter, as I had done both as an intern. Ambulatory care is where it's at! As commented before, clinical pharmacists can have quite a bit of autonomy - the Veteran's Administration (VA) and Public Health Service (PHS) are prime examples. I currently work for the PHS, under the Indian Health Service (IHS) branch. My site has 7 pharmacist-ran clinics, one started last year by myself and the other (current) resident. We opened the Cardiovascular Risk Reduction Clinic, and focus on hypertension and/or lipid disorders. We have full prescriptive authority for these disease states, as well as authority to order and interpret lab results, and full access to the entire patient's chart. Pretty amazing!

As far as pursuing a dual/second degree goes, I would say stick with one for now, work that profession and take a break from school and see how you like it. After 6 years I guarantee you'll appreciate it! Also, a lot of jobs will consider pursuit of a second degree as career advancement, and maybe even (help) pay for it. If you do choose the VA/PHS, not only will they (help) pay for it, but it will also help you with promotion. I will pursue a second degree, but probably not for a couple years. I want to get board certified, as well as National Clinical Pharmacy Specialist (NCPS) certified (IHS-specific), along with a couple other certificates first (my "break" lol). I haven't decided what yet, but I have lots of time. I'm currently considering MPH, PA, FNP, or maybe BSN.

Also, to satisfy your psych craving, you can apply that in almost any pharmacist situation. Non-adherence will ALWAYS be an issue; no matter where you go, what disease state(s) you're dealing with, or whom the patient population consists of. Increasing adherence is ALL about EMPOWERING THE PATIENT. The majority of patients are non-adherent because they haven't been engaged in their health care. They don't understand the importance and/or complications of disease states/meds/adherence/side effects, etc. One of the hardest things to do is make it relevant to the patient. Why is it important to THAT PARTICULAR PATIENT? Their own personal health, significant other, family, friends, job, future plans, etc. Personalize it. I had a patient that was having difficulty quitting smoking. I asked her why she wanted to do it and she answered for her daughter (secondhand smoke is more harmful than firsthand smoke, especially to pediatric patients). I commended her for this, as well as recognizing the impact it can have on her daughter (and gave more details about how the current situation would reverse). I recommended that she put a picture of her daughter on the front of her pack of cigarettes so that she would see her every time she felt the craving to smoke. It worked. She quit. Amazingly, this doesn't have to take a lot of time. Being perceptive can cut an hour conversation into 5-10 minutes. In general, people love to talk, and once you make that connection it's even easier to do.

Pharmacy is SUCH a wide open field! There are so many things you can do with that degree!! Don't think you'll be trapped into anything. Yes, the competition is increasing, but so is the age of the general population, the actual (number) population, as well as the meds each patient is taking and new meds are being introduced every day. It's a very dynamic profession.

It really just depends how much time and effort you're willing to commit. There are robotic/plug-n-chug options as well as very progressive opportunities. Either way, best of luck on your journey! (Sorry for such a long post...)

psychonaut · Feb 18, 2010

Every time I see this thread, I fight back the urge to post. Since the thread is still alive, I'll bite the bullet:

I am a wannabe pharm who went into nursing. Due to my personal circumstances, I was only able to apply to 1 pharm school, my local (private) pharm school. Well, didn't even get an interview. Instead of broadening my search and applying to more schools the next year, I went for the "sure thing" and got my BSN.

Again with the sure thing, I'll be starting my FNP school in the Fall. I don't hate my profession or my choices, but if I could trade you my NP spot for your Pharm school spot, I'd do it in a heartbeat. As it is, I guess I'll stay the pharm nerd nurse who collects the package inserts left over in the pyxis...

odinhoub2422 · Feb 23, 2010

I am considering pharm school also. I have been a nurse for three years and hate the hospital setting so I think I would like working in a retail clinic. on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate pharmacy school compared to nursing school. Also my employer will pay for up to 10 credit hours at the state university I work for if I stay 90% this probably isn't possible with all the studying right?

oohnurse · Feb 23, 2010

on a scale of 1-10 how would you rate pharmacy school compared to nursing school. Also my employer will pay for up to 10 credit hours at the state university I work for if I stay 90% this probably isn't possible with all the studying right?

Thank you all of you guys for constructive criticism and advices. I want to write a long reply now but I have to study tonight and tomorrow.

I haven't taken graduate level nursing causes as of yet so I can't compare MSN VS PharmD. It's not fair to compare BSN with PharmD because they are not at the same level. Anyway, comparing to my nursing undergrad ("BSN"), I feel that materials in pharm school (both pharmacology and A&P aspect) are more scientifically oriented and more detailed. I spent much more time studying for tests. But I can't comment anything about NP or MSN program.

jlcole45 · Feb 23, 2010

Continuing with the PharmD would also give you an excellent pharmacology background later

if you decide to pursue your NP. I have to admit that this is the area I am struggling with most in NP school.