Reporting meds to the Police when a patient dies....HIPAA?

[tewdles]

Here's a HIPAA question for you...

Is it a HIPAA violation for nurses to report health information to State Troopers at the mandate of employer without suspicion of wrongdoing or potential harm of self or others?

[nurse2033, MSN, RN]

HIPAA has exceptions like- health care operations. If you need to divulge some information to comply with rules or the law its OK.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

HIPAA has exceptions like- health care operations. If you need to divulge some information to comply with rules or the law its OK.

Yes, but not to cops with absolutely no need to know as no crime has been committed or suspected.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

I will say this, I do not work for this employer.

I do know that an RN who believed that this was WRONG, who reviewed the law, and who asked the administrator to review the practice with the risk department was very suddenly FIRED by that same administrator.

AAAAAnnnnnndddd....they'd hear from my lawyer for wrongful termination.

Doesn't the ACLU love this sort of stuff? I mean, there's an awful lot of law infringement, encroachment, and creep going on here.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

The HIPAA language addresses when health providers may divulge protected information to law enforcement...we may divulge when we have concern for safety/welfare relative to the information we possess. I am pretty sure that HIPAA was just reviewed, at least at this particular hospital, because there was a page long memo that was distributed in February relative to HIPAA..

The interpretation from the hospital system that owns this hospice indicated that professional staff may report to law enforcement if they have concern...ibut verbally the HH and Hospice staff are required to report to law enforcement.

HIPAA Privacy Rule and Public Health Guidance from CDC and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services*

enjoy!

I bolded the part that's bugging me.

You really can't say you have concerns for safety and welfare of the patient (who, after all, is no longer on this mortal coil) by reporting to the police that some family member has meds under their control that belonged to the deceased. And HIPAA of course applies to the patient in question, not a family member.

So my guess is this is a HIPAA violation just based on the intent. HIPAA would cover the patient. The family member is not the patient.

Reporting this possession to the police creates suspicion of a crime (and necessitates obtaining of a warrant for seizure). Cops do not have time (or the legal authority) to be bouncing around homes doing this. And if they did, they'd have to start nailing folks with medications who belong to people who aren't currently in the home (my vacation example) or the mom who carries her minor child's meds (my other example), because the premise is exactly the same.

(There are nuances to these laws, and they vary by state. But HIPAA is Federal.)

If the meds are not the property of the hospice, then they are the personal property of the patient. Taking by the RN is unlawful seizure. The RN is not law enforcement and has absolutely no authority to do this, and could get into serious trouble. A cop can't even take the meds because really, they'd have to have a warrant to take them. (If a cop has to move something to find something, there better be a warrant. Even if he walks into the house and sees them on the table, he needs a warrant.) No magistrate is going to waste his or her time doing this. It's preposterous.

Sometimes - SOMETIMES - that JD I toy with getting just looks more and more attractive to me. I'd love to make side money after retirement investigating this sort of stuff.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

The HIPAA language addresses when health providers may divulge protected information to law enforcement...we may divulge when we have concern for safety/welfare relative to the information we possess. I am pretty sure that HIPAA was just reviewed, at least at this particular hospital, because there was a page long memo that was distributed in February relative to HIPAA..

The interpretation from the hospital system that owns this hospice indicated that professional staff may report to law enforcement if they have concern...ibut verbally the HH and Hospice staff are required to report to law enforcement.

HIPAA Privacy Rule and Public Health Guidance from CDC and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services*

enjoy!

I went to that site and read what they said. The following is the summary at the top: My bold emphasis. I see nothing whatsoever in here about satisfying the kind of requests you originally posted about. "Public health surveillance/intervention" and "prevention of disability" are not what the cops are interested in. This is not a public health issue, and they are not public health workers any more than you are in law enforcement.

New national health information privacy standards have been issued by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS), pursuant to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). The new regulations provide protection for the privacy of certain individually identifiable health data, referred to as protected health information (PHI). Balancing the protection of individual health information with the need to protect public health, the Privacy Rule expressly permits disclosures without individual authorization to public health authorities authorized by law to collect or receive the information for the purpose of preventing or controlling disease, injury, or disability, including but not limited to public health surveillance, investigation, and intervention.

Public health practice often requires the acquisition, use, and exchange of PHI to perform public health activities (e.g., public health surveillance, program evaluation, terrorism preparedness, outbreak investigations, direct health services, and public health research). Such information enables public health authorities to implement mandated activities (e.g., identifying, monitoring, and responding to death, disease, and disability among populations) and accomplish public health objectives. Public health authorities have a long history of respecting the confidentiality of PHI, and the majority of states as well as the federal government have laws that govern the use of, and serve to protect, identifiable information collected by public health authorities.

[morte, LPN, LVN]

this is an extension of the war on drugs, simple as that.

[tewdles, RN]

Do you believe the nurse's licenses could be in jeopardy? Or would the hospital be the superior respondent if there were a legal action?

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

Do you believe the nurse's licenses could be in jeopardy? Or would the hospital be the superior respondent if there were a legal action?

That's a question for the lawyers, and as we are often reminded, we can't give legal advice here.

However, since you asked for my belief, here it is: If I were that nurse I wouldn't do it, and dare the cops to find somebody to prosecute me. I'd bet they wouldn't be able to find anyone.

[tewdles, RN]

That's a question for the lawyers, and as we are often reminded, we can't give legal advice here.

However, since you asked for my belief, here it is: If I were that nurse I wouldn't do it, and dare the cops to find somebody to prosecute me. I'd bet they wouldn't be able to find anyone.

I think it is not the cops that the nurses are "afraid" of...the cops have no power over them in this regard. The administrator however, DOES have power over employment and fired the one nurse who was verbal about this.

[carolinapooh, BSN, RN]

I think it is not the cops that the nurses are "afraid" of...the cops have no power over them in this regard. The administrator however, DOES have power over employment and fired the one nurse who was verbal about this.

And if it were me, they'd have the tar sued out of them for wrongful termination. AND they'd get reported to the BON - I would at least call and say, 'can I ask you about X?' And then the BON would get the whole story.

Of course, they'd be talking to my lawyer anyway, because I would've already called one. As in as soon as I heard about this farce.

But that's just me! :)

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

Could you ask the administrator to do the reporting for you?

[tewdles, RN]

Could you ask the administrator to do the reporting for you?

lol...that was a cute thought...nah, this is not the kind of guy that would appreciate that. And remember, he fired the one and only nurse who questioned this decision...even though that firing put the entire hospice program at risk!

It will be interesting to see what the state BON has to say about it...