I am a BSN student taking a nursing theory class at the moment. I was wondering what is everybody's opinion regarding expressing religious believes in nursing theories. Does it offend you to find the word "God" when reading about certain theories. Example : "Persons have mutual relationships with the world and God" (Quote from my theory book re works of Sister Callista Roy)
I am Catholic myself so I do not find such statements offensive...I am just wondering what others think on this topic
I do believe it was the tone of your post that offended people. In any case... I don't think anyone thinks you would withhold care. What you said was actually close to what I said...
I think there should be sufficient trained religious staff on hand to care for any spiritual need that may arise. This should be dedicated staff.
However the application of a religion to a science is inappropriate. Any religious belief you hold should not in any way change the care you provide and should never be pushed on to a patient.
You also need to watch your tone when telling a patient that you won't pray with them because it is very easy to offend someone where religion is concerned.
I must say your post about having to be a Christian to be a good nurse was entirely inappropriate and quite wrong. That is all I will say about that but if you would like to discuss that further it would probably be better to do that in a PM.
I have a good friend who is a Benedictine priest and pastoral care minister by specialty. He has no problem praying with a non-Christian a more general prayer, or just talking with the person if they are not interested in praying.
I've also been told by another priest, who the was head of the ethics department for a large Catholic hospital chain, that it is unethical to proslytize to patients under our care.
We are to evangelize by our actions, as in the quoted sections I provided you. As St Francis of Assisi said "Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words"
I have a good friend who is a Benedictine priest and pastoral care minister by specialty. He has no problem praying with a non-Christian a more general prayer, or just talking with the person if they are not interested in praying.
I've also been told by another priest, who the was head of the ethics department for a large Catholic hospital chain, that it is unethical to proslytize to patients under our care.
We are to evangelize by our actions, as in the quoted sections I provided you. As St Francis of Assisi said "Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words"
"There's an interesting irony to this story. After a little research I came across a quote about the famous saying. It is from someone who had been a Franciscan monk for 28 years-and had earned an M.A. in Franciscan studies. He contacted some of the most eminent Franciscan scholars in the world to try and verify the saying. He said, "It is clearly not in any of Francis' writings. After a couple weeks of searching, no scholar could find this quote in a story written within 200 years of Francis' death." Saint Francis would never had said such a thing, nor should we.
I regularly meet those who think they can obey the Great Commission without using words. When they hear the Gospel preached that are usually offended and say things like, "I appreciate what you are saying, but I don't like the way you are saying it." With a little probing, they are the relationship folks, who think preaching the Gospel means building relationships with the lost, and never mentioning words like "sin," "Hell," and "Judgment Day." They think that real love is to withhold the Bread of life from those that are starving to death. Remember that Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels" (Mark 8:38)"
Preaching and trying to convert patients under our care is unprofessional, unethical, and against Catholic teaching.
No, no, and no. :)
“Christ is the author of our profession.” -Florence Nightingale
Christianity has been with this profession since the beginning. Christians are called to spread the good news of Christ in all things we do. Our faith doesn't stop at the hospital door.
I can't remember if you are Catholic or not. If you are, pay attention at the end of mass next time. Usually the deacon or priest closes with "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord." He doesn't mean love and serve the Lord until you exit the church, or until your next shift begins, or until it is convenient for you. Stand up for that guy who hung on a cross 2,000 years ago for you.
Go and serve the Lord is an entirely broader admonition than to actively try to convert patients under our care to our particular religion.
It's unethical because there is a power imbalance, with the patient being the weaker and more vulnerable one in the relationship. They should not be held hostage by proslysizing healthcare workers.
And today it is a Church that must be “disciple and missionary”, “missionary only insofar as she is a disciple, capable of being attracted constantly and with renewed wonder by the God who has loved us and who loves us first (cf. 1 Jn 4:10). The Church does not engage in proselytism. Instead, she grows by ‘attraction’: just as Christ ‘draws all to himself’ by the power of his love, culminating in the sacrifice of the Cross, so the Church fulfils her mission to the extent that, in union with Christ, she accomplishes every one of her works in spiritual and practical imitation of the love of her Lord.”
“Christ is the author of our profession.” -Florence Nightingale
Christianity has been with this profession since the beginning. Christians are called to spread the good news of Christ in all things we do. Our faith doesn't stop at the hospital door.
I can't remember if you are Catholic or not. If you are, pay attention at the end of mass next time. Usually the deacon or priest closes with "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord." He doesn't mean love and serve the Lord until you exit the church, or until your next shift begins, or until it is convenient for you. Stand up for that guy who hung on a cross 2,000 years ago for you.
Yup Christians also have the biggest body count in terms of murder and slavery. Nursing is NOT the place for religion. Even Catholicism that seems to keep forgetting the murders, burnings, slavery, selling of indulgences, Inquisition, Crusades and the serial child molesters.
But indeed, push your views on helpless patients...
Religion has nothing to do with nursing other than meetingthe patients needs. Your needs are not relevant in the scope of nursing...
Go and serve the Lord is an entirely broader admonition than to actively try to convert patients under our care to our particular religion.
It's unethical because there is a power imbalance, with the patient being the weaker and more vulnerable one in the relationship. They should not be held hostage by proslysizing healthcare workers.
And today it is a Church that must be "disciple and missionary", "missionary only insofar as she is a disciple, capable of being attracted constantly and with renewed wonder by the God who has loved us and who loves us first (cf. 1 Jn 4:10). The Church does not engage in proselytism. Instead, she grows by 'attraction': just as Christ 'draws all to himself' by the power of his love, culminating in the sacrifice of the Cross, so the Church fulfils her mission to the extent that, in union with Christ, she accomplishes every one of her works in spiritual and practical imitation of the love of her Lord."
I can't argue with the Holy Father.
I think you have the wrong idea of what I am talking about though. I don't read scripture between assessments, I don't introduce myself as a Crusader with chalice and patent in hand, nor do I have Roman Catholic on my name tag (a celtic cross instead).
I have never held a patient hostage or preyed on weak patients. I stated several times, "if they asked."
"Florence was baptized in the Church of England, and during her last years she was a frequent communicant. Yet throughout her life she had sought a deeper experience of God, something beyond the socially expected rituals she had grown up with. Something she called Mysticism. "For what is Mysticism?" she wrote once. "Is it not the attempt to draw near to God, not by rites or ceremonies but by inward disposition? Is it not merely a hard word for 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within'?"
and, under The Christian Call to Care
"While the power of prayer and divine healing might account for some of this, it's also likely that Christians were among the few who cared and dared enough to provide basic nursing attention."
what florence is saying, is to lead by the example of Christ.
proselytyzing was not what florence was referring to.
I think you have the wrong idea of what I am talking about though. I don't read scripture between assessments, I don't introduce myself as a Crusader with chalice and patent in hand, nor do I have Roman Catholic on my name tag (a celtic cross instead).
I have never held a patient hostage or preyed on weak patients. I stated several times, "if they asked."
Sorry, I entirely missed that. If someone brings up the subject, that would be a patient led conversation, and that's acceptable in my book. Thanks for clarifying, you came across in one post as if you were actively proslytizing.
Atheos
2,098 Posts
I do believe it was the tone of your post that offended people. In any case... I don't think anyone thinks you would withhold care. What you said was actually close to what I said...
I think there should be sufficient trained religious staff on hand to care for any spiritual need that may arise. This should be dedicated staff.
However the application of a religion to a science is inappropriate. Any religious belief you hold should not in any way change the care you provide and should never be pushed on to a patient.
You also need to watch your tone when telling a patient that you won't pray with them because it is very easy to offend someone where religion is concerned.
I must say your post about having to be a Christian to be a good nurse was entirely inappropriate and quite wrong. That is all I will say about that but if you would like to discuss that further it would probably be better to do that in a PM.