NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

[Brian]

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

Also, in case we have not noticed, no one seems to win the old "BSN versus ADN" argument

EXACTLY

Except for one thing. The market ALREADY dictates that ADN will be the so called 'entry' into nursing for some time to come. So, the battle was over before it ever started. THAT is nursing economics 101.

And THAT being the case, for the ANA to split its potential membership over an issue that is, in effect, a moot point is what is denying nursing the voice that could do wonders for improving out 'professionalism'.

There are 3 times as many nurses as there are doctors out there and we dwarf in numbers practically EVERY health care profession. But, our national organization chooses to fracture itself by only represent BSNs and APNs ~ less than 30% of nurses when you throw LPNs/LVNs into the mix.

NO WONDER WE AREN'T PROFESSIONALS. We have no voice. And everytime somebody says: 'We should move to BSN-entry', that voice is fractured a little more, for no reason under the sun; BECAUSE IT'S A MOOT POINT.

It is the BSN-entry debate ITSELF that robs us of our professional.

Bottom line: Our allied healthcare professionals will ALWAYS have their opinions colored by their perceptions. You can have a doctorate and the same doctors that now dismiss you as 'just a nurse'; they will THEN, also.

Our focus shouldn't be on 'putting on airs' for others at the expense of 60% of our profession; now AND in the future. For without ADN, there will be no future pool to no longer grandfather; the BSN programs simply cannot take up the slack.

No, our focus should be on a united voice. That voice needs 2 KEY elements. 1. End this moot debate. 2. End the intricate linking to liberal politics and make our national advocacy PRO-NURSING instead of pro-left wing causes. With those 2 key changes, we would take a GIANT leap to 'professionalism'.

This debate though, holds us back. The sad thing is, we are holding ourselves back over a moot point. Sad. I've said this before, and it bears repeating: in a world where 'professional' is just an aspiration; BSNs are no more 'professional' than ADNs. . . and no less.

The day a national organization accepts all nurses without trying to eliminate them: ANPs, BSNs, ADNs, and LVNs/LPNs - and uses that voice to further NURSING alone; that is the day we can realistically reach out for the brass ring of 'professionalism'.

If you CHOOOSE to define that professionalism by BSN-entry, not only will that day never come; you're in the wrong 'profession'. Because, by THAT definition, we are ALL 'technical' nurses.

~faith,

Timothy.

[sushiart]

Ok...first off, I will apologize for the "shoddy 2 yr" comment. I agree that sciences at a CC can be just as well done as a 4 yr. The comment was aimed really at something else. So lets move on.

Now...How can nurses get unified? Whats the deal with Unions, etc? Why have we no voice? And who is going to take the reins here and bring us all together for better conditions?

And honestly...I dont mean to sound naive but I know this is---Other than abandonment issues...why cant we "walk out" a la the hispanics over the immigration issues? Imagine the fear and change that could inspire? Someone tell me why nursing hasnt done these things please...I want to really know.

J

[oktravelnurse]

Good grief! I can't think of anything that would be worse for the nursing shortage, especially in New York. I have my BSN only because I had to wait to be accepted so I took all classes required for my BSN. I was accepted to an ADN and BSN program at the same time.

I chose the BSN. This could only make the nursing shortage worse!

[azhiker96, BSN, RN]

If NY really wants to export their ADN nurses to other states, let 'em. When healthcare starts to suffer the voters will demand a change.

[zenman]

how will that respect manifest itself?

do you plan on working as a bedside nurse?

if so, will you get lighter patient loads because of having a bsn?

truly, what kind of respect? i don't understand.

leslie

Probably some of the respect issues are related to other professions having to have more education than nurses, even though they are not working in life and death situations.

And why do people keep bringing up that the only difference between ADNs and BSNs is the humanities...don't they see the differences? Look at the course descriptions.

[PANurseRN1]

I'd love to know what the "shoddy two year degree" comment was really about, then. I also wonder where the heck that puts me; I graduated from a diploma program 21y ago. Yes, I've got 2/3 of the credits for a BSN, but I'm totally turned off by all the politics, so I doubt I'll ever finish it. Truth be told, I'd rather get a degree for fun, like in music or literature.

Another question I have: If ADNs and diploma nurses are so inferior, are you going to refuse to let anyone with less than a BSN be your preceptor if and when you graduate? What will you do if you find out your charge nurse is "only" and ADN/diploma grad?

Have you posed your questions of your professors? Have you paid any attention to what the CNA is doing? (That is, the California Nurses' Assn.)

If you do a search, you'll find that the questions you've posed have been asked many times over the years. Perhaps you can find your answers there.

Normally, I have no problem answering questions from students even though those questions have been asked before and the answers are easily found be doing a search. But I'm disinclined to go out of my way when I see people who aren't even nurses yet denigrating nurses who are out there actually providing care. Part of being a good nurse is being able to play nice with everyone: aides, LPNs, RNs, etc. All the degrees in the world will not help you if you can't do that, and the unity you seem to want so much will never happen if you have such contempt, concealed or not, for your co-workers. Providing good patient care takes a team effort, from the housekeeper up to managers. Learn that lesson early, or you'll find your transition into the real world of nursing harder than it need be.

[RN34TX]

Just a thought. Are there more ADN educated nurses than BSN's?

If so why aren't they a force to be reckoned with.

Also, I have no problem with any of them putting ADN after RN on their badge and signing their charts that way. I would never be offended by that.

More importantly, why aren't BSN's a force to be reckoned with?

They aren't, plain and simple.

Maybe if BSN's had so much more power than the rest of us, then maybe us ADN's would buy all of the propoganda about how we'll all be so much more respected and better off if we only would get our BSN.

As ADN's, we are, in fact, a force to be reckoned with.

If hospital administrations and the public had their way, it would be to have all RN's be BSN prepared and yet pay them the same as an ADN and give them the same minimal power they have today as staff nurses.

They want the education and credentials, but are not willing to pay the premium to get it.

If every state decided to only allow BSN's to be licensed as RN's, healthcare and hospitals as we know it today, would crumble.

Look at North Dakota and their "success" in having only BSN RN's.

It doesn't work. For many reasons.

I'd love to see anyone state any account of any hospital who is successfully hiring only BSN RN's to staff their units in their entire hospital and getting buy with anything less than minimal difficulties.

Yes, we are in fact, a force to be reckoned with.

Name one hospital in the entire U.S. that doesn't use ADN or Diploma RN's and instead use only a BSN staff.

[RN34TX]

And honestly...I dont mean to sound naive but I know this is---Other than abandonment issues...why cant we "walk out" a la the hispanics over the immigration issues? Imagine the fear and change that could inspire? Someone tell me why nursing hasnt done these things please...I want to really know.

J

I believe that "walk outs" would in fact, inspire fear and change.

But in reality, it's just not the same as in the Hispanic/illegal alien fight.

Too many nurses are way too comfortable in their jobs and lifestyles, despite the grumbling that goes in this forum.

It seems that most are not quite dissatisfied enough to actually give up their comfortable middle class lifestyles, mortgages in middle class suburbs, and tuition to their children's private schools, to actually walk out on their jobs to create change for the entire profession.

It's much easier to blame nursing's problems on the fact that we have so many under-educated people in our profession calling themselves nurses.

If we got rid of LPN's and ADN RN's, things would really change for the rest of us, right?

The fact of the matter is this:

The day I don't see any more groveling and "yes master" mentality toward physicians and family members of patients, is the day this profession will finally move up.

Blame it on nursing's low educational standards all you want, but every time I see a nurse bowing down to MD, patient, or family member abuse simply because they are afraid to lose their job and/or retirement package, I just want to puke.

Weak nurses who will do anything to feed their kids and pay their mortgages, no matter who disrespects them or why, is the true weakness and problem with our profession.

But go ahead, blame it on the lowly educated non-BSN's.

We still won't demand what we are worth. We'll settle for whatever will pay for us to get by and still let others belittle and abuse us.

A BSN will not change that.

If a BSN requirement would change all of this, then why don't I see BSN's standing up for themselves rather than spending their shifts making sure that they don't upset the doctors, families, or management?

They are just as guilty as the rest of us in keeping our profession weak.

[battpos]

sorry if it's offensive to anyone; but I suspect that it has something to do with the overwhelming amount of estrogen in the profession.

[battpos]

....And why do people keep bringing up that the only difference between ADNs and BSNs is the humanities...don't they see the differences? Look at the course descriptions.

ummmm, just spent three hours looking over course descriptions.... they look the same.

[rhenmag9]

only in n.y..:trout:

[zenman]

ummmm, just spent three hours looking over course descriptions.... they look the same.

Having taught in both programs, I can tell you from experience that they are not the same...do you have that experience to allow you to say that or do you just have an opinion? Look at any school, preferably those that have both programs and look at the difference.