Reforming nursing education...

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Specializes in Oncology/BMT.

After reading several threads regarding the entry-level MSN programs and which level of nursing education should become the standard, I want to share a classroom discussion I had a while back...

What if a MSN became the solid standard for entry into nursing practice? What if we all practiced in the role of a nurse practitioner? Now, I know that this will surely NEVER happen! But, a six year program leading towards a MSN degree with the outcome of a nurse practitioner may not be such a bad idea. Think about it... We could manager our own patients' care instead of the way a physician thinks it should. We could prescribe pain medication when a patient needs it.

Anyways, as I said it will probably never happen, but it was a very interesting discussion.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT???

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Specializes in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU.

As long as the MSN prepped practitioner gets PLENTY AND I MEAN PLENTY of clinicals (years) before becoming independent...I think that would be an incredible idea....

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Who would do the bedside care and all the other duties?

Also, would the hospitals and doctors offices be willing to pay them what they deserve?

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I think there would be a health care crisis if that happened. Too many patients and not enough nurses to care for them.

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Specializes in home health, dialysis, others.

I've been saying for many years - - who is going to spend 10s of thousands of dollars to work nights, holidays, every other weekend and the rest of it? $40,000 to wipe bottoms? $60,000 to pack wounds at 6a and 6p? Hahahaha!

We still haven't made it to all BSNs yet.

The ADNs and the few Diploma nurses left will be there at the bedside.

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The ADNs and the few Diploma nurses left will be there at the bedside.

Until when? Soon there would be no more ADN or LPN's left. The Practitioners would have to fill their spots. IMO it wouldn't work. If anything, it would hurt their profession.

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Specializes in Oncology/BMT.

well like I said... it was just a discussion...

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Specializes in Professional Development Specialist.
Until when? Soon there would be no more ADN or LPN's left. The Practitioners would have to fill their spots. IMO it wouldn't work. If anything, it would hurt their profession.

One of my classmates researched and found that the ADN programs were started in WWII as a TEMPORARY stopgap to the nursing shortage. It was to be discontinued at the end of the war. As anyone can tell you it is still very much in force. :lol2:

I find it hard to believe that after the amount of schooling and tuition paid anyone would be willing to be paid RN salary to do all the duties of a current RN as well as prescribe meds, etc. Employers would love to hire NPs and cut down on MDs, I'm sure. But I don't see any benefit to the nurse, just more responsibility and liability.

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I know that there are people out there that sincerely believe this (MSN as entry level), but I always have to wonder what they've been smoking. We haven't even come close to making the BSN the minimum entry level. I also agree with the others who question how practical this would be -- a hospital full of NPs cleaning poop and passing meds?? I don't see that happening ...

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Specializes in Telemetry.

Heck, I have a BSN and I'm still not really sure what that does for me. So I paid more to go to school than an ADN, yet we all get paid the same. And here's something schooling didn't really prepare me for: taking responsibility for everyone else's job. I mean really right now as it stands I'm the go between for EVERYONE. I need to check the MD's scribble to make sure she/he wrote the appropriate thing, I have to make sure the doctor knows of the things the patient was asking me about during the shift because God forbid the darn doctor spend more than 3 minutes at the bedside, I have to make sure my aid is getting vitals, remembers about bed 918's 24 hour urine, gets mister so-n-so cleaned, call lab because they didn't get 912's troponins as scheduled, that pharmacy finally put through the order for Amioderone that I need for 917, see if respiratory will check on the bipap in 916, and go fix the orders that the secretary put in wrong on 910. Not to mention the things I have to do that I am the only one capable of doing like starting the IVs, changing the dressings, administering the meds, and documenting everything!

Hummm, so if I got paid like 1/2 of everyone else's pay because I'm doing part of their jobs wouldn't I be getting like 40 or 50 bucks and hour instead of the 21.18 that I make? Now someone thinks it might be a good idea for me to have MORE responsibility by being responsible of planning all the care and prescribing meds so that the hospital can abuse me more and probably try to pay me like $5 more an hour for it?! No, I'm good with the responsibility I have right now....in fact if someone wanted to take a few of my responsibilities away by actually being held accountable for doing their job instead of me being held responsible, I wouldn't argue. :p

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Think about it... We could manager our own patients' care instead of the way a physician thinks it should. We could prescribe pain medication when a patient needs it.

Anyways, as I said it will probably never happen, but it was a very interesting discussion.

SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT???

Hmmmm...so what happens at shift change? And what if the NOC NP does not agree with the care plan that the day NP has planned?

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They can require more education, but for what? We all end up doing the same damn job when it's all over. I think if someone is to return back to school for further education in nursing, then the hospital should pay for it, if not, then get a degree in another major. Nursing can only take you so far.

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