Recession and Retrogression

World International

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the new york times has it officially. the day is december 2, 2008 - the usa is now under recession. a double whammy for nurses wanting to immigrate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/business/02markets.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

i understand and am aware of whats going on in the nursing profession. as i have stated in one of my posts that was deleted...i've been a lurker of this forum for quite sometime now and it has been a great source of information for me.

i admire and thank you for your unwavering and tireless work in helping your fellow nurses. I,myself have learned a lot from your posts in various threads in this website.

i have my own take on the present state of nursing in the Philippines but it will be out of topic to discuss that here so i'll just take it elsewhere.

going back to the topic.....if an applicant nurse already have a priority date and hurdled all the necessary requirements, it is unfair to tell them to turn around and stop applying after all the things that they've gone thru.if the job is still there waiting for them,then who are we to tell them not to wait for their GC to come thru..

now,whether these nurses are capable of doing their job..that is another issue which will be again out of topic if we discuss it here.

if an applicant nurse has everything in place already and is just waiting for their priority dates to be current, i would strongly advise them to look at working at another country right now. some people are made to believe just because you have all your papers in place, you can easily wait for your GC, when in reality it will take years. these people will delay going to other countries or committing to other contracts because they fear that their PD will become current while they're still under contract or in another country, and i know a lot of people who have done this..they have been delaying a lot of things just waiting for the PD to be current..

that's why the point of soooo many people here who advise others not to expect much from the US is valid and should be heeded. these people are actually in teh US and have years of experience...

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i understand and am aware of whats going on in the nursing profession. as i have stated in one of my posts that was deleted...i've been a lurker of this forum for quite sometime now and it has been a great source of information for me.

i admire and thank you for your unwavering and tireless work in helping your fellow nurses. I,myself have learned a lot from your posts in various threads in this website.

i have my own take on the present state of nursing in the Philippines but it will be out of topic to discuss that here so i'll just take it elsewhere.

going back to the topic.....if an applicant nurse already have a priority date and hurdled all the necessary requirements, it is unfair to tell them to turn around and stop applying after all the things that they've gone thru.if the job is still there waiting for them,then who are we to tell them not to wait for their GC to come thru..

now,whether these nurses are capable of doing their job..that is another issue which will be again out of topic if we discuss it here.

The problem for many is going to be that if the time comes for their interview and the facility that hired them has a hiring freeze in place, or is having lay-offs, then they are not going to be able to bring a foreign nurse over as they will not have work for them. Then the US government cancels out everything, they do not go back and look at the file 6 months later or whenever. That is the point that we are trying to make. Also the fact that just because someone has a PD date, it does not guarantee that they will ever get a green card. The PD date strictly means the day that their petition was received, nothing more.

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if an applicant nurse has everything in place already and is just waiting for their priority dates to be current, i would strongly advise them to look at working at another country right now. some people are made to believe just because you have all your papers in place, you can easily wait for your GC, when in reality it will take years. these people will delay going to other countries or committing to other contracts because they fear that their PD will become current while they're still under contract or in another country, and i know a lot of people who have done this..they have been delaying a lot of things just waiting for the PD to be current..

that's why the point of soooo many people here who advise others not to expect much from the US is valid and should be heeded. these people are actually in teh US and have years of experience...

i don't know about the people you said that have been delaying a lot of things just waiting for the PD to be current...been reading lots of posts here especially in one of the threads that tracks Green Cards and as far as i can remember...no one there just sits on their backside waiting for a green card to fall from heaven. on the contrary, they've been gaining and improving their skills for the time being.

give a little bit of credit to your fellow nurses, i'm sure they know whats happening around the world so i don't think they would expect an easy ticket to the states right now.

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i don't know about the people you said that have been delaying a lot of things just waiting for the PD to be current...been reading lots of posts here especially in one of the threads that tracks Green Cards and as far as i can remember...no one there just sits on their backside waiting for a green card to fall from heaven. on the contrary, they've been gaining and improving their skills for the time being.

give a little bit of credit to your fellow nurses, i'm sure they know whats happening around the world so i don't think they would expect an easy ticket to the states right now.

i have also been reading the threads there, and I do know some of the people there personally..the problem with our pd dates is that it is so near (2005-early 2006) yet anything can happen. the PDs could move forward or not. some of them have been documentarily qualified three times, and that is a bit frustrating. and we were filed at a time when there were not as much applicants as compared to today..

three years ago the economy was good, late 2007 and 2008 saw a sudden downhill trend.

how can you explain to newly grads/applicants that their petition will take years when recruiters continue advertising false statements, saying that they can beat retrogression, etc. what this forum has said and keeps on saying is the reality in the US.

i'm not saying don't apply to the US, just don't expect the US to give you jobs anytime soom, don't complain that you've been waiting for retrogression to end to move on with your plans. people even use canada as a stepping stone to eventually go to the US, and Canada has a good healthcare system.

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The problem for many is going to be that if the time comes for their interview and the facility that hired them has a hiring freeze in place, or is having lay-offs, then they are not going to be able to bring a foreign nurse over as they will not have work for them. Then the US government cancels out everything, they do not go back and look at the file 6 months later or whenever. That is the point that we are trying to make. Also the fact that just because someone has a PD date, it does not guarantee that they will ever get a green card. The PD date strictly means the day that their petition was received, nothing more.

Are you saying that a person can have an approved I-140 and then have it cancelled if no job is available at the time that a visa number becomes available? I was also wondering if the current state of the economy is going to delay I-140's in getting processed. I just happened to look at the processing times for I-140's (out of curiosity) and it is still at Aug 2007 and wonder if a some of the applications from July 2007 are still not even approved for the I-140. If that is true then will that move up the priority dates for those people who still have a job available for them? Just a couple of thoughts about how the economy could be impacting retrogression yet further. I realize it is speculation but not sure if a retrogression in the past was tied along with it such a difficult state of the economy.

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mauiboy,

I worked on Wall Street for years. My job went the way of the dinosaur when humans were no longer needed to enter and excute orders.

I went back to school, having discovered an aptitude for computer programming. I did very well in that, paid off the loans I didn't expect to take on in my 40's, and then that job was out-sourced overseas.

I went back to school and became a nurse because at least they can't out source old, sick folks. But there is a hiring freeze on in my facility, and a lot of places here are - and there aren't that many, as we're rural - splitting jobs into two part-time positions to avoid paying the benefits that must, by law, be paid if a person works over x hours per week.

My parents have just lost most of their life savings in the stock market and my dad is in the early stages of Alzheimers. His sister is in the hospital with CHF, just diagnosed. She was also wiped out in the market nose-dive. And they're all going to end up living with my husband and me.

I have always been open to people coming here. My ancestors did, and not that long ago.

But there are no jobs here. The auto industry is about to go belly-up, financial companies are folding, construction is dead - and I'm sorry, but I and my fellow citizens have first shot at the shrinking pool of resources here.

My job was sent overseas to someone who would do it for less. I now earn less than half of that. And I am greedy now. It's mine.

I wish you luck. But you need to be realistic, and the US isn't going to open up any time soon.

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The approved I-140 is only the first step in the process for immigration here. One must actually go thru the entire process and be waiting for a green card interview with the US Embassy. This is what I am speaking of. Remember that one needs to present an updated letter from their employer that they are going to have full-time work when they come over here, the empoyer is essentially signing a document that they have the work for them.

If the facility is under a hiring freeze or undergoing lay-offs, then they are most definitely not going to be able to bring a foreign nurse over here. In that case, since there is no work for them, things get cancelled; the government here is not going to put that file on hold and go back to it in six months, it is going to be cancelled. We have seen it numerous times when the agency or employer was no longer in operation or there were lay-offs going on; one then starts all over again.

The retrogression that we have a few years ago only affected those from the PIC countries and only because there was such a large number of applications for the green card from there. Nurses from other countries, such as Canada and the UK, as well as the others, were actually getting processed in just a relatively short time. Lets say that you started the process in February, one was in the US by September to October with the green card.

This retrogression started because of many more applicants than there are visas available and the only reason that it was started. The economy was also excellent at the time that it started.

But when there is a retrogression and no progression with anything past the I-140, then there is no reason to be in a hurry doing anything with it. And it is not that they are slow, but remember that there were the 800,000 petitions that were submitted during the same time frame as you when there was that open window. That is why I keep making my point that one does not wish for them to get thru things at this time, better just to ride it out. Then the PD dates stays in effect, etc.

What becomes a problem for some if that if one has actual approval on their I-140, and they are in the US and going thru AOS and not Consular Processing, if they have not had approval on the I-485 and it has been more than 180 days since I-140 approval; they may actually move to another employer and keep things the same. But without the initial approval, they are with the same employer no matter if they want to be there or not.

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suesquatch,

i understand where your coming from and specially in these times of uncertainty,losing your source of livelihood is really scary. i may not know what the real extent is of the global financial crisis there in the U.S. but i don't think that it is so bad for the U.S. to close it's borders to foreigners.

its a bad time to be an immigrant or a foreigner in another country right now.it's only natural...citizens will resent the migrants,thinking their getting what should be rightfully theirs whether its jobs,food or shelter.

but the point is..everyone can harp about not coming to the U.S. right now because of RECESSION,RETROGRESSION etc. and everyone is blaming these agencies from giving these poor nurses false hopes.but come to think of it, has the U.S. government done anything to discourage or even stop these foreigners from applying? last time i've checked,they're still taking in I-140'S.

some may argue that even if they take in applications,it's not gonna progress anyway.but thats beside the point,the simple fact is the U.S. is still taking in foreign workers.

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suesquatch,

i understand where your coming from and specially in these times of uncertainty,losing your source of livelihood is really scary. i may not know what the real extent is of the global financial crisis there in the U.S. but i don't think that it is so bad for the U.S. to close it's borders to foreigners.

its a bad time to be an immigrant or a foreigner in another country right now.it's only natural...citizens will resent the migrants,thinking their getting what should be rightfully theirs whether its jobs,food or shelter.

but the point is..everyone can harp about not coming to the U.S. right now because of RECESSION,RETROGRESSION etc. and everyone is blaming these agencies from giving these poor nurses false hopes.but come to think of it, has the U.S. government done anything to discourage or even stop these foreigners from applying? last time i've checked,they're still taking in I-140'S.

some may argue that even if they take in applications,it's not gonna progress anyway.but thats beside the point,the simple fact is the U.S. is still taking in foreign workers.

I really don't get that you think it's the US's fault that we accept applications.

And I appreciate your understanding, but it is lacking. With NAFTA the borders have been opened too widely, to the extent that even more American jobs have left for the cheaper labor in central and south America.

You do not have the right to come here to work even if you think you do. Were things better I would be happy to have you. But there is simply no room at the inn, whether you want to believe it or not. I don't know how much clearer I could make the situation here than in my post. People are losing their homes, let alone their jobs.

There is more than a recession her. I would call it the brink of another Great Depression.

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I really don't get that you think it's the US's fault that we accept applications.

And I appreciate your understanding, but it is lacking. With NAFTA the borders have been opened too widely, to the extent that even more American jobs have left for the cheaper labor in central and south America.

You do not have the right to come here to work even if you think you do. Were things better I would be happy to have you. But there is simply no room at the inn, whether you want to believe it or not. I don't know how much clearer I could make the situation here than in my post. People are losing their homes, let alone their jobs.

There is more than a recession her. I would call it the brink of another Great Depression.

sorry to disappoint you,but i'm not actually one of those queuing up trying to come in to your country.

i am just trying to look at the situation on both sides of the coin.what i'm trying to point out is....if there really is no job for foreigners in the U.S. right now,then why is it that they are still taking in applications and still processing work permits and I-140? it's as simple as that.

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You do not have the right to come here to work even if you think you do. Were things better I would be happy to have you.

am not here to pick a fight or an argument but i find this comment patronizing.not unless you work for the immigration dept.,you have no authority to say these things....

peace.

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I'm glad retrogression is set at this moment in time. This country doesn't have to open it's borders to everyone and there should be a limit on visas to enter and work. There are lots of people trying to cut in line by coming over on a tourist visa and secretly taking the NCLEX and trying to find someone to sponsor them. Well it wont happen since the economy is bad. The jobs should go to the citizens of the US first before any foreigner. I'm all for embracing everyone, but when it comes to jobs it should go to the US citizens and legal residents first.

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