Recession and Retrogression

suzanne4, RN · Dec 1, 2008

I already posted about this in your other post. We have been saying that this was happening, but it takes two quarters of no growth to be actually classified as this. And now it is true. The last two quarters were dismal in almost every sector in the US and that includes healthcare as well.

Actually this was posted on December 1 in the US.

This is why we are also not expecting to see any movement with anything in terms of immigration, let alone what has happened in the past week or two overseas.

When things are bad with the economy, last thing on anyone's mind is to bring in more workers when there are Americans that are unemployed.

Thanks for sharing.

mauiboy · Dec 2, 2008

When things are bad with the economy, last thing on anyone's mind is to bring in more workers when there are Americans that are unemployed.
Thanks for sharing.

you should tell that to your Gov't so that they could close the borders and stop foreigners from coming in..... :lol2:

suzanne4, RN · Dec 2, 2008

The government here is very aware of what is going on with the world right now. Thank you.

But why in the world should the US be required to open their doors when the other does not hold true in reverse? An American nurse cannot go to the Philippines and get licensed, even if they attended school there. So why should the US have an open door policy because a government can't seem to do things correctly?

The UK as well as the rest of the EU all have hiring freezes in place and jobs must first go to their own citizens. That is what is happening now in the US as well as the fact that we have had a retrogression for more than two years already.

There is no country that has unlimited visas for nurses, never has been one either anyplace.

mauiboy · Dec 2, 2008

The government here is very aware of what is going on with the world right now. Thank you.
But why in the world should the US be required to open their doors when the other does not hold true in reverse?
that is a question best answered by your government.....out of curiousity,suzanne, do you really wanna work in the Philippines as a nurse?:no:

suzanne4, RN · Dec 2, 2008

Not me at this point in my life, but I have many students that have wanted to and they were not permitted to do so. Some of them have actually lived in the Philippines since they were quite small and attended school there for their entire schooling experience but since their parents never became legal citizens there, only legal by having working visas, they are not permitted to write the NLE and work there.

And next question is that they already have 500,000 plus unemployed RNs there now. It is something that their government needs to deal with, it is not a requirement or responsibility of any other country that they must open their doors to all that wish to come. And unforunately issues with schools that are permitted to remain open, yet do not have graduates that can pass their own licensing exam. The government there needs to crack down on these schools and get things cleaned up. There is no reason why there needs to be more than 450 RN programs there, the need for nurses has not increased in other countries or there. Visas are still the main focus point and they have not gone up in number.

There are less than 10,000 green cards per year under the EB-3 category for those that were born in the Philippines. And that includes other professions as well as children and spouses. So on a high note, you can say that about 3,000 can get a visa when there are any and that is per year. With the number of nurses that are over there and not working, let alone those that are working and getting paid for it, the chances of actually getting to the US are actually becoming slimmer and slimmer with the drastic increase in the number of applicants. And that was what was being discussed on that other thread if you start back from the beginning of it. It was actually started by the same poster that started this thread and he was advising others to look at other countries. Nothing more than that, then it became a full-out war and for no reason.

I have traveled to almost every country in SE Asia and very aware of what is going on in the Philippines now and have lived and worked in SE Asia as well. Again, immigration needs to be a two way street. If I did not appreciate nurses from there, why in the world would I be investing this much time to help someone pass the NCLEX and get work either here or somewhere else. But when one comes and demands that the US take them immediately because they decided that this was their dream, and we have many posts here stating the same; then I get irritated with it as well. And the anecdotal notes keep piling up that are sent to me with issues that are going on over there that I am not going to post that others that are training there now or very recently have witnessed. They are not happy with it either.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 2, 2008

But this thread is dealing with the affects of the retrogression on immigration and what was posted in the news today. Please stick to the topic that is being discussed here.

Thank you.

mauiboy · Dec 2, 2008

to go back to the topic ..... correct me if i'm wrong, this is not the first time the the US went into recession but that didn't stop them from outsourcing foreign labour,right?

mauiboy · Dec 2, 2008

to suzanne... i don't have a pm function so i can't reply to the pm you've sent me. so hopefully,i'm allowed to answer you here.

with due respect, i am not attacking anyone personally here. i have no ulterior motives other than expressing my opinion.now, if expressing an opinion which is different than yours is grounds for me to be banned then so be it....

another thing...Filipino nurses at the moment have everything going against them right now ( retrogression,unemployment,recession etc.) so it will help them if you and the others could at least be easy on them a bit, ok? thanks

Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN · Dec 2, 2008

You need 15 posts to pm anyone. Just a few more and you will be there.

There are some excellent posts on the top of this forum on how to get experience. Most nurses in the USA do not work in the hospital, but it is a preferred place for a new nurse to get experience. What area of nursing interests you? For example if you like working with the elderly, perhaps you could set up an adult day care. If it is the OR, you could work on helping to open up a Surgical Center.

There are other places in the world to work as a nurse, Austraila and New Zealand are looking for nurses.

Back to your other question, has there been other recessions in the USA?

Yes, and many nurses lost their positions. Since then many nurses have now work in union hospitals, nurses now will be laid off with the newest nurses being let go first ( this did not happen in previous recessions, it is the power of nurses banding together for change),

During the depression which was in the 1930's many nurses did not have positions, In fact when WWII there was an acute shortage of nurses.

The very scary thing no one knows how bad the economy is or will be, many people are loosing their homes. Many nurses are loosing their jobs.

Medicare which is a major source of funding is level funding meaning even though their are more people on Medicare with less resources. Nursing education ( including American Education) is not able to prepare nurses to work independently while the seasoned nurses don't have time to assist a new nurse.

I have 2 children, both are college graduates. I would hope my children would get decent paying positions before Non Americans get employment.

After paying for their schooling and large taxes I only hope my government and businesses that I have supported will employ me and my family. Both Kids have also large college loans since we could not fully support my kids while they went to college.

suzanne4, RN · Dec 2, 2008

to suzanne... i don't have a pm function so i can't reply to the pm you've sent me. so hopefully,i'm allowed to answer you here.
with due respect, i am not attacking anyone personally here. i have no ulterior motives other than expressing my opinion.now, if expressing an opinion which is different than yours is grounds for me to be banned then so be it....
another thing...Filipino nurses at the moment have everything going against them right now ( retrogression,unemployment,recession etc.) so it will help them if you and the others could at least be easy on them a bit, ok? thanks

It is not a point of picking on anyone, that is what you are assuming and are quite mistakenly wrong if you will take the time to read many of my posts here. The issue is that if one does not take and pass the NLE as well as get experience under their belt, they are not going to be able to come to the US. There is no reason for anyone to feel sorry for anyone.

A nurse has to take responsibility for what they will do with their life and how they are going to do it. Sitting back and waiting for things to happen in the distant future makes no sense at all to me. They need to be pro-active in what they are going to do. If you look at the math that I posted above, you will see that there is no way that many are ever going to get to the US to work in the role of the RN; just not going to be happening. Just because someone passes the exams and even finds an employer, having a PD date definitely does not guarantee one that they will ever get a visa for the US. If they want the best chance, then they need to do something about it. There are actually several stickies that I started on the Philippine Forum about what someone can do to get experience as well as help others and there are people that are actively following it and doing so. And then there are others that are just complaining and doing nothing about it.

If it means going to another counntry to gain experience, then that is what they are going to have to do.

With the large number of applicants to the US, and only a certain number of visas available per year when they are; expect that they US is going to demand or require both the local license as well as two years of paid experience before they will accept anyone. The US is currently one of the only countries that does not require the local license, but many states are starting to require it and they are not exempting anyone, unless they are unable to legally write the NLE. Work experience is something else that is required by almost every other country as well, except for some in the Middle East at this time, or bridging programs are required if there is not two years of experience as for Australia. NZ will not accept a second courser nurse from the Philippines, nor anyone that does not have a full year of work experience.

Yes, the US has had recessions in the past, and there were periods of time that lasted more than five years before any nurse was able to get a visa for the US as well. But during those times, there were also not the number of applicants that we have now either.

You are new to this forum, would suggest that you take the time to do some actual reading on this forum to see what is actually going on and what has transpired over the past two years. I can promise that it will be a real eye opener for you.

mauiboy · Dec 2, 2008

i understand and am aware of whats going on in the nursing profession. as i have stated in one of my posts that was deleted...i've been a lurker of this forum for quite sometime now and it has been a great source of information for me.

i admire and thank you for your unwavering and tireless work in helping your fellow nurses. I,myself have learned a lot from your posts in various threads in this website.

i have my own take on the present state of nursing in the Philippines but it will be out of topic to discuss that here so i'll just take it elsewhere.

going back to the topic.....if an applicant nurse already have a priority date and hurdled all the necessary requirements, it is unfair to tell them to turn around and stop applying after all the things that they've gone thru.if the job is still there waiting for them,then who are we to tell them not to wait for their GC to come thru..

now,whether these nurses are capable of doing their job..that is another issue which will be again out of topic if we discuss it here.