Reasons Why YOU Won't Join A Union

mystedream · May 16, 2008

Why won't I join a union????

I don't like someone who is often not a nurse, or any type of medical person, telling me when to strike, regardless of what I personally want to do.

I am a nurse first and foremost. :nurse: I take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Who takes care of them if all the floor nurses in the hospital, who are in the union, strike? :confused:

I worked at a hospital when the nurses went on strike. I worked for a nursing agency at the time and had worked there off and on when they needed extra help. Yes, I crossed the picket line. The only staff nurses were the administrative nurses. They had to ask the agency nurses where things were and to help them because it had been a while since they did direct patient care. What type of care did those patients receive? Those administrative nurses tried their best but the care they gave, while not substandard or dangerous, was not what they patients truly needed when they were sick. But I will say, thank goodness I wasn't there for emergencies.:bowingpur They, however, did improve over the course of the strike. :yeah:

Mystedream:bugeyes:

PS. The nurses at that hospital later got the union out of the hospital. They decided that they did not like the politics and decisions being made by the union.

HM2VikingRN, RN · May 16, 2008

The union is the members. If they disliked the direction being taken then members should get involved by expressing their viewpoint and getting active.

Nurses and their unions should be covered by binding arbitration procedures this would augment the negotiations process.

Truth66 · May 17, 2008

The union is the members. If they disliked the direction being taken then members should get involved by expressing their viewpoint and getting active.
Nurses and their unions should be covered by binding arbitration procedures this would augment the negotiations process.

Yes I agree the Union is the members. Unfortunately some Labour Organizations are nothing more than dictatorships who have absolutely no respect for their members. During one particular issue the members were collectively pushing the leadership to put a matter before arbitration, but the leadership refused because they were not interested in spending any money on arbitration.

Some Labour officials believe that the members are answerable to them, when in truth it's the other way around. Some members like myself have actually filed complaints about their local union leaders with the head offices of these large unions. Unfortunately many of my co-workers and colleagues in other facilities have learned that the rights of members mean nothing. Solidarity among Labour officials is everything.

HM2VikingRN, RN · May 18, 2008

That is why true union democracy is so important. I fully advocate for members fighting to have their local constituted in such a way that decisions are made in an open small democratic fashion. Transparency is everything!

Julia RN · May 18, 2008

My local requires a 2/3 vote of the all the members in the bargaining unit in order to strike (not just those that vote- it has to be 2/3 of all the nurses that would be affected)

I am engaged in a struggle for democracy and transparency in my union. It's not easy and I do have battle scars to attest to that. Some might think it's crazy to support an organization with your money, your time and then get beat up trying to reform it. But then, this is kind of what it's like for all of us working in healthcare, isn't it? LOL

I believe in the union members-the nurses- and helping them and our patients. So I do what I feel I have to do.

We're in this together and the union gives us the power of collective action. Yes, some independence is lost to the group when you are a part of any movement. How much depends on what you bring to the table.

Here's a quote from Professor Clyde Summers, who helped draft title I of the Landrum-Griffin Act: "Workers gain no voice in the decisions of their working life if they have no voice in the decisions of the unions which represent them".

And this is from Congressman Payne ".....if the importance of maintaining democratic procedures is one on which we can all agree, the issue of how best to promote democracy, whether in a union or in a Nation, does not lend itself as readily to easy answers.... it is worth remembering that the first government of the United States, operating under the Articles of Confederation, failed because it lacked the central authority to be able to effectively implement the democratic will."

Balancing and defending the rights and autonomy of the national, state, local organizations, and members while ensuring these structures have enough authority to effectively implement the policies and goals that their members have democratically chosen them to pursue, is no easy task. But democracy is never won without a struggle.

Ludlow · May 20, 2008

The post made by Dolce was correct. Union dues do go to endorse canidates that a lot of people do not agree with. You can say showing up to meetings will change the status quo, but it has been my personal experience that it will not. Unions ALWAYS endorse Democrats. Unions and any other organization that have such a diverse population of members should not endorse one political canidate over another. Professionalism is not incompatible with union membership, but not voting Democrat is.

CNA looks at the policies of the various politicians. If they support nurses and patients' rights we support them. They are not always democrats.

Ms.Williams · May 28, 2008

Please explain "acting professional". I do not think nurses act unprofessional and it should not be a matter of what candidate is supported , it should be for better working conditions and such things that management are allowed to get away with such as working extra hours and if you say no you are silently mistreated if you get my drift

ivanh3 · Jun 11, 2008

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20060415/1374.html

i want to know what makes you feel that you don't deserve to be heard.

iron workers have a union, boiler-makers have a union, auto workers have a union. not to sound holier-than-thou-, but most rn have more education than those that i've previously mentioned. so, why is it that you refuse to unite, and stand against a system that seems to disrespect you? i have to know.
sb

first things first. i am not pro union, more on that in a bit. why would you say i feel as if i don't deserve to be heard? that is a very ill informed, short sighted statement. i do deserve to be heard. i have always felt so. even before i was nurse. i have pretty much been “heard” all of my life. funny thing, during all that time, the only time i was not heard was in the job where i did belong to a union (it was there before i came along. membership was compulsory. not a bad experience. i just didn’t get anything out of except for a cool sticker for my car). just like i don’t need a union to speak for me, i would prefer that you don’t speak for either by telling me how i feel.

i can understand the appeal of unions. i really can. but look at the industries you mentioned: auto, iron, etc. how many of those us industries are in trouble because unions drove demands up so high that employers outsourced? ok, i know there will be at least two comments:

1) industries outsource because of greed. i will agree to that. but to say that the union driven demands (less work, more pay) have had no culpability in these decisions is just not reasonable. just look at the american car industry. union: we want more money, less work, more retirement benefits, and in return we will provide you with an inferior product. that’s a great business model! let's send nursing down that path! i know i am over simplifying but the suggestion that the blame falls strictly on the side of either employer or employee is just plain silly.

2) my job as an rn can’t be outsourced. puuuuhhhlease! the healthcare industry is about 2 or 3 studies away from proving that many of the bedside duties of the rn can be safely done by people who didn’t spend hours and hours learning about florence nightingale and nursing care plans. in today’s nursing education, much of the training is during the new grad phase on the job after graduation. my wife just completed a similar program when she transitioned from mother/baby to the ed. her preceptor had been an rn for two years!

once again, i know i am over simplifying this. there are many, many pro union people out there who want to improve working conditions, satisfaction, and patient safety, and maybe along the way elevate the profession (yes it is a profession. i am a professional. i act professionally. if some old, stuck up sociologist wants to say otherwise that’s their problem) i disagree with the conclusions that a union will solve everything, but hey, i have been wrong before.

i believe i am paid fairly for the job i do. what i don’t get in cash, i get in the satisfaction of helping people, flexible schedule, and job security (or have you not been reading the news about record job loss, recession, blah blah). there is lots of room for imrovement here. no doubt. this job is hard. it is hard for many reasons, and to quote hanks, “the hard is what makes it great”.

adawg67 · Jun 30, 2008

I am in a very unique position because I was a healthcare union organizer for 7 years before deciding conditions, pay, benefits, and job security had evolved in healthcare enough for me to become an RN.

It's interesting that so many people become focused on who the unions support politically.

Let's do a comparison of money spent on CLA expenses and where and how much control we have over where our money goes.

Cell phone-$100 plus a mth.

Cable $100 or so

Utilities $100-500 + (many privatized)

Gym $50

etc etc

We spend thousands of dollars on expenses of living and have zero control over where our money goes or what it supports from Domino and Carl's Jr supporting anti abortion politics,to BOD's granting huge bonuses and payouts to corporate bosses.

Another analogy I like to use to help people understand how a union works is a gym membership. Every month we pay dues and if we don't go and participate we see no results. I will only work in a union position because I know firsthand the benefits of workers uniting--we are all workers folks-let's not be delusional about that.

Here's a perfect example. Prior to the 1st RN union contract nurses would work 16 plus hrs then have to work the next day another 12 plus hrs. There were no limits or pay benefits for nurses having insufficient rest between their shifts. NOW we receive double time for the entire next day we work if we don't have 12 hours off b/t our work shifts. Just one shift pays my union dues for a year in 1 day. In flu season we often stay late and work consecutive days. This compensation provides us with an incentive to staff our hospital and also a disincentive for mgmt to work us to the bone and motivates them a bit more to staff properly.

Union members have a right to be informed and involved in their union to solve workplace issues.

Our patients are depending on us and when hospitals shortchange healthcare staff they also shortchange our patients. :jester:

Truth66 · Jun 30, 2008

I am in a very unique position because I was a healthcare union organizer for 7 years before deciding conditions, pay, benefits, and job security had evolved in healthcare enough for me to become an RN.
It's interesting that so many people become focused on who the unions support politically.
Let's do a comparison of money spent on CLA expenses and where and how much control we have over where our money goes.
Cell phone-$100 plus a mth.
Cable $100 or so
Utilities $100-500 + (many privatized)
Gym $50
etc etc
We spend thousands of dollars on expenses of living and have zero control over where our money goes or what it supports from Domino and Carl's Jr supporting anti abortion politics,to BOD's granting huge bonuses and payouts to corporate bosses.
Another analogy I like to use to help people understand how a union works is a gym membership. Every month we pay dues and if we don't go and participate we see no results. I will only work in a union position because I know firsthand the benefits of workers uniting--we are all workers folks-let's not be delusional about that.
Here's a perfect example. Prior to the 1st RN union contract nurses would work 16 plus hrs then have to work the next day another 12 plus hrs. There were no limits or pay benefits for nurses having insufficient rest between their shifts. NOW we receive double time for the entire next day we work if we don't have 12 hours off b/t our work shifts. Just one shift pays my union dues for a year in 1 day. In flu season we often stay late and work consecutive days. This compensation provides us with an incentive to staff our hospital and also a disincentive for mgmt to work us to the bone and motivates them a bit more to staff properly.
Union members have a right to be informed and involved in their union to solve workplace issues.
Our patients are depending on us and when hospitals shortchange healthcare staff they also shortchange our patients.

Your comparisons are very valid. Your comparisons also demonstrate that a union will also be democratic in that it will adhere to the wishes ofthe membership. For those who belong to a democratic union or some other labour organization, I applaud you. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned before some labour organizations are nothing more than dictatorships who routinely exploit the members they claim to represent.

dmkm2001 · Jul 5, 2008

I would have to say the main reason I would not join is the stance on abortion and the support of it. Speaking about CNA. If they at least took a nutral stand, I would be more apt to join.

The other reason, Unions are terrible at correcting their own. If they would take a stand against lazy incompetent staff and nurses and not allow it to become a managment issue, I would consider joining. I do not like being associated with lazy losers. I KNOW THAT NOT ALL ARE !!! BUT to me, it seems to be a breeding ground for the lazy to hide and flurish.

I do not like an additional layer of beuracracy. It's bad enough dealing with managment, but then you have to go through the union. It takes years for some things to change when it could take days otherwise.

allnurses Guide · Jul 5, 2008

CNA advocates education and counseling of women regarding pregnancy and birth control methods in an effort to reduce the need for abortion.

CNA knows nurses hold moral, ethical and/or religious beliefs that may compel them to refuse involvement with abortions. CNA supports the nurse's right to exercise this refusal.

It is managements job to hire and supervise workers, including nurses.

It is not the job of the union.

Whe incompetent or lazy nurses are allowed to complete their probationary period it is managements job to manage.

It is the unions role to ensure due process and that discipline is for just cause.