I'll admit it. I'm not a nurse. I did want to be a nurse at one time, but now Im going the RT route. I researched nursing for a long time before making the decision NOT to become one. Considering the fact that most of you complain (on here at least) of not getting fair treatment, of getting cursed out by doctors/patients, of being overstressed, overworked and not getting they pay you feel you deserve, why oh why won't you join a union? Why do you come here to vent about administration or policies when it doesn't have to be that way? I want to know what makes you feel that you don't deserve to be heard.
Iron workers have a union, boiler-makers have a union, auto workers have a union. Not to sound holier-than-thou-, but most RN have more education than those that I've previously mentioned. So, why is it that you refuse to unite, and stand against a system that seems to disrespect you? I have to know.
I agree here .. ..DiveRN isn't denigrating nurses or anyone. The topic veered into tax breaks and whether they are good for all of us.
If you take a look at the Heritage link - you will see that there are good things that come of giving taxpayers and businesses a break - it fuels the economy by allowing us to expand our businesses and hire more people.
We are a tiny example - a small logging business but we were actually able to hire someone this year! It is still hard - the government makes it very very hard to run a business and make a little money. Right now most of our money goes back into the business - purchasing equipment for the tax breaks so we don't have such a huge tax bill - but getting into debt at the same time. Frustrating.
As to union membership - I side with the "no" folks and for all the reasons already given. (just to stay on topic ).
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
I joined a union because the new owners of my hospital owed the shareholders a duty rather than the patients.
As nurses we advocate for our patients.
But these new owner$ came in and laid off RNs and pharmacists. Professionals were replaced with people from dietary and housekeeping who had not chosen to be caregivers.
Then nurses were blamed for the increase in med errors.
Now, although it is not perfect there is safe staffing almost every shift, patients are well cared for. I am certain lives have been saved because nurses with the education, contract, and political siccesses of a union that is led by direct care nurses helped US work toward our many successes.
Regardles of the unemployment rate people need care.
Okay, I have to reply only because of the few quotes about unionized airline pilots. My spouse is a pilot for one of the major airlines. Because of pressure from the union the age 60 rule was changed to make it so that pilots could fly to age 65. Was that a good thing? Well, not if you're young and can't move up because now there are all these older guys/gals sticking around because they either didn't have the foresight to prepare for the retirement they knew was mandatory at age 60 or are caught in the trap of rampant consumerism. I cannot speak for every union, but the major airline union (ALPA) -- My Opinion Only -- exists primarily to support the UNION and the old capts at the expense of the industry as a whole and the younger pilots. And there is NO choice of whether or not to join if that is the profession one chooses.
As to union membership - I side with the "no" folks and for all the reasons already given. (just to stay on topic ).
steph
I appreciate your posts and have a lot of respect for you... not only for running your own thing, but making a go of it in an industry that's GOT to be a tough one to survive in.
As for the union thing, I think the political elements of this thread demonstrate pretty well who is for a union and who isn't. I think political ideology parallels the pro or anti union stance. For that reason, I think flushing out thoughts on tax breaks is good.
This thread is starting to bore me. Was hoping to have an intelligent conversation because the mental exercise is good, but it sounds more and more like a broken record espousing the same ol' same ol'.
lololololol.....in my experience, more than a few years of living, this sort of statement is commonly made by someone who knows they have lost the arguement/debate...............years ago, we had a non union shop.....and low and behold they got a raise every time the union shop got one....hmmm
lololololol.....in my experience, more than a few years of living, this sort of statement is commonly made by someone who knows they have lost the arguement/debate...............years ago, we had a non union shop.....and low and behold they got a raise every time the union shop got one....hmmm
Try reading the whole thread. I acknowledged a LONG way back that this thread (for me) is nothing more than a mental exercise and that nobody's mind is going to be changed.
Try reading the whole thread. I acknowledged a LONG way back that this thread (for me) is nothing more than a mental exercise and that nobody's mind is going to be changed.
Your worthy contribution is noted.
ah, the old "you dont have a clue" arguement.....I rarely if ever, comment without reading the thread.....YOU are the one who keeps coming back, and back, and back......i would guess you really do need to be right.....if you were only being bored, you would just not show up anymore.....no, you had to announce it, as if to denigrate those left ......another tactic i am familiar with......please do have a very nice day!
ah, the old "you dont have a clue" arguement.....I rarely if ever, comment without reading the thread.....YOU are the one who keeps coming back, and back, and back......i would guess you really do need to be right.....if you were only being bored, you would just not show up anymore.....no, you had to announce it, as if to denigrate those left ......another tactic i am familiar with......please do have a very nice day!
Yep, back ... and back ... and here I am again. If by lost, you mean I failed to persuade anyone, I admit it ... and I'm just as right as Viking and Music.
The thing that I've learned in my experience with Internet forums and living, which is more than a few years, I've found that trying to "win" an Internet argument is futile, but the exchange of worthwhile ideas is thoughts isn't.
Well now this is a topic that I could quite litterally write a book about. Wait a minute, I tried and my wife told me that if I were to publish it I'd probably end up being shot.
I've been nursing for over 12 years now and I've yet to have any possitive experiences with union officials with three different labour organizations. Here's just a snap shot of a few of the countless reasons why.
1) I work for a municipal employer that has male dominated bargaining units like police and fire which are 100% Full Time while our bargaining unit is approximately 70% part time. I put in a discrimination grievance and the union dropped it because it didn't want to spend the money in arbitration.
2) The emplpoyer was looking at laying off over 100 nurses and converting those possitions to nurses aide possitions which was about a 13% wage reduction while they at the same time gave the fire fighters a 13% wage increase. Union officials allowed this to happen inspite of the outrage from the members.
3) We had a nurse manager who was the equivalent of a terrorist and routinely harassing the nursing staff including violating various human rights. Her actions were grieved, but the union president stated, "we can't damage employer union relations."
4) The employer decided to change our nursing scheduals which was a complete violation of three sections of our collective agreement. Nursing staff were furious and at one point a petition against the union officials was started by me and was gaining high momentum. The local union president was furious with this challenge to his so-called authority and sent me a threatening letter. I even challenged it to the head national union office because the local officials were even going against the Constitution of the union itself. I was told that the decision regarding nursing scheduals was made by the leadership of the union which is the ultimate authority in the union (gee I thought the members were the ultimate authority). Correct me if I'm wrong, but does this sound like a dictatorship?
I can describe countless other personal examples. But, I'll look at the bigger picture to give a perfect example of how useless many unions have become. According to Statistics Canada, 82% of the nurses in Canada are represented by a Labour organization, or some form of a collective agreement. Yet, in some jurisdictions in Canada, nurses and other health care workers are experiencing a level of violence three times higher than police officers. The research on violence was done by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation when they researched compensation board claims of various occupations.
Using this as an example, why aren't these labour organizations doing anything about it when there's such high level of so-called representation?
If you want to examine Bullying in the workplace, you need not look any further than the book The Bully at Work: what you can do to stop the hurt and reclaim your dignity on the job by Gary Namie & Ruth Namie.
On page 116 it states: "Unions, like employers, are organizations. They have agendas and goals that may or may not meet your needs. As incredible as this sounds, unions are not automatically good at giving unconditional support."
On Page 118 it states: "There is no excuse for the only official employee advocates to be too busy to help employees who seek relief from horrendous workplaces."
Then on page 233 it states: "Regrettably, too many Targets report to us that their union fails them. Either the steward is a bully herself and hates the target or the steward fails to see any need to defend the Target in the absence of collective bargaining agreement (contract) language."
If these Labour officials actually did the job that they are paid to do, which is represent their members, then I would be very much in favour of unions and other labour organizations. Unfortunately based on personal experience and much of the research that has been done, labour organizations are becoming more and more useless. Many of them are viewing their members as nothing more than a source of stable revenue for themselves. Unfortunately this is ever so true in nursing because in various jurisdictions it's illegal for nurses to strike. Many of the labour organizations that allegedly represent those nurses exploit that reality and cash in on that stable source of revenue.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
Our nurses association was led by people who were managers and academics and didn't understand how downsizing, restructuring, and "patient focused care" was harmful to our patients. One reason was that they had not had a patient assignment since the shorter hospital stay and higher acuity became the rule.
So we staff and other direct care nurses ran for office and took over our association.
Thus we worked for safe staffing by acuity of which ratios are the floor, a whistleblower law, and increased slots in nursing programs.
Just having a union is not the answer. Labor laws provide a mechinism for direct care registered nurses to advocate for our patients even when the employer seems to be solely interested in the budget.
I am very happy for non union hospitals to keep their standards up and treat employees well as a way to avoid a union.
That is good unless the facility changes hands.
I do not always think that "If you're not part of the solution you are part of the problem"
Many fine nurses do their part by providing safe, effective, therapeutic, and compassionate care to their patients. That is all that is required.
But those who work for social justice and a healthy workplace enable them to do the good they do.
).
Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
I agree here .. ..DiveRN isn't denigrating nurses or anyone. The topic veered into tax breaks and whether they are good for all of us.
If you take a look at the Heritage link - you will see that there are good things that come of giving taxpayers and businesses a break - it fuels the economy by allowing us to expand our businesses and hire more people.
We are a tiny example - a small logging business but we were actually able to hire someone this year! It is still hard - the government makes it very very hard to run a business and make a little money. Right now most of our money goes back into the business - purchasing equipment for the tax breaks so we don't have such a huge tax bill - but getting into debt at the same time. Frustrating.
As to union membership - I side with the "no" folks and for all the reasons already given. (just to stay on topic
).
steph