"That's why I don't like working with women"

[clemmm78]

You know, I've lost count of the number of times I've read this comment (just read it a few times in another thread).

What I don't get is most of the people (if not all) who write this are women themselves. Does this mean that the women who write this comment are better than all other women? Does this mean that if they were in charge, the other women they work with wouldn't want to work with them?

I know that these forums encourage complaints and that sometimes we write things we don't really think, but this comment is way too common and is said out loud.

You know what is going to solve this problem? If we stop blaming difficult work conditions on "working with women" and blame it on what it is: working with difficult people. I've worked with both men and women. Some great people in both groups and some horrid people in both groups.

I believe that some people should grow up and stop blaming "working with women" as the root of all problems in nursing. Sheesh.

[gpwil3847]

Bingo!

[TDCHIM]

I've worked in a female-dominated work setting and a male-dominated profession. Both had horrid backstabbing coworkers (in varying numbers) and examples of egregious behavior from both genders. No, men and women didn't always fight exactly the same way, but it wasn't like one group had a distinct advantage in the professionalism department. The female-dominated setting had an in-crowd; so did the place I worked for in the male-dominated profession.

I think anytime people are pushed to the brink by crazy workloads and unresponsive management, the normal workplace politics grow to epic proportions. Judging from the comments here, it sounds as though the majority of nursing work settings are being squeezed mercilessly by management and have been for quite some time. Is it any wonder that the bad behaviors have gotten out of control in so many places? I don't think the difference lies primarily in the gender of those working at a place, but in the economics in play and the work culture that dominates the setting.

[caliotter3]

There is nothing wrong with expressing the observation that there have been many problems working with women or green three-toed frogs.

[caliotter3]

Before I became a nurse, I was a factory worker at a paper products plant for three years. Out of 500+ employees, I was one of the only female workers there. Virtually all of my coworkers were men.

During my three years of employment at this factory, I saw minimal or nonexistent gossip, backstabbing, politics, cat fighting, or manipulation. I'm cognizant that the following statement may sound like a generalization, but men can shove their personal feelings aside to get the job done. Two men might personally dislike each other, but they can work together professionally. This concept seems harder for many women to grasp.

I do have a preference for working around males.

I was successful in a career in the military where I found the same environment. Twenty years of being in a work centered atmosphere greatly accentuates the childish behavior I have encountered in nursing. The difference is glaring. This is my observation, I do not pretend to assume it will be the same experience for everyone else.

[OgopogoLPN, LPN, RN]

I've seen both sides.

I worked in a office with all women support workers (secretaries, etc) and it was gossipy, catty, cliquey etc.

Then I worked on a surgical floor with mostly women nurses. Wonderful group, great friends, opening to me (the newbie). No cattiness. Very minimal gossip. I love them all!

So, there can be great groups of women and not so great groups.

[noahsmama]

Obviously one's view of this issue will depend on the types of work environments one has experienced. In my own case, I have experienced:

1) A male-dominated non-nursing job (for a national environmental advocacy group) in which there was a huge amount of very nasty politics and in-fighting, especially at the program head level. One of the few program heads who seemed to manage to stay out of the fighting and nastiness was the only female program head.

2) A male-dominated non-nursing job (in a national laboratory) in which there was little, if any, politics or backstabbing, and we had the very business-like, professional atmosphere that others in this thread have described and have attributed to the presence of males (but which I wouldn't so attribute -- see 1)).

3) A female-dominated job as a bedside nurse in a major peds hospital. Here we did have some nurses who were "mean" -- this seemed to mostly be confined to change of shift report, when there were certain nurses who would try to rip you a new one if there was anything they felt you should have done on your shift but which you hadn't done. I noticed that none of the male nurses did this, and might have jumped to the conclusion that female-dominated jobs generate meanness, except not only for job 1), but also for job......

4) my current position, as a public health nurse for foster kids. Once again, there is little to no nastiness, in a job which is even more female-dominated than the one I just left (but most of my co-workers are social workers, not nurses -- hmmm, so should I jump to the conclusion that only nurses are mean? Um, no, don't think I'm gonna go there.....).

From my own experience I have to conclude that workplace nastiness is not solely a function of the gender of the people working there. In my first job, the nastiness stemmed from different program heads having very different philosophies and ideas about who we were as an organization, yet having to present ourselves as a unified package for the purposes of fundraising -- one of the most passionate debates was about how we were different or not from other environmental groups, and although that is a legimate "business" question to answer, let's just say that sometimes the battle over this question got very personal and very VERY ugly. This included people making a concerted (and sometimes successful) effort to force other people out of their jobs.

At the hospital I worked at, the "meanness" was primarily confined to change of shift, and I attribute it to the stress of a job where it's very hard to keep up with the work load, and some nurses dealing better than others with the fact that sometimes when they arrived for their shift they were going to find that the previous shift just plain didn't get to everything and had to leave some things for them to do.

I've also noted, both through my own very limited experience at different hospitals (in nursing school clinical rotations), and through posts here, that there's a huge amount of variation from one hospital to the next in the amount of backstabbing, politics, and meanness that goes on. In my own hospital job it was minimal and tolerable, but in the hospital in which I did my very first clinical rotation, it was pretty bad -- bad enough to make me worry about whether or not I could stomach working in a hospital -- it was also a particulary busy med-surg-tele unit, with quite a few pts so sick they really should have been in the ICU -- I'm sure the pressure of this was a big factor in the enviroment.

Anyway, from my own experience I would conclude that stress and limited resources has much more to do with workplace toxicity than the gender of the people working there.

I also conclude that if your workplace environment is toxic and there's nothing you can do to fix it, that's a good time to polish up the resume and look elsewhere -- because there's a decent chance you'll find a more congenial workplace elsewhere, even if you stay within the same female or male dominated profession.

Just my $0.02

[leslie :-D]

I believe that some people should grow up and stop blaming "working with women" as the root of all problems in nursing. Sheesh.

i certainly have never believed it is the "root" of all problems, but do believe that often, women can exacerbate the problems at hand.

i seriously believe i should have been born a guy.

i appreciate straightforward approaches and direct communication.

many women avoid confrontation/dealing w/issues...

and how do you suppose these avoidances manifest themselves?

often, in passive-aggressive behaviors.

generally speaking,

i tend to observe that men suck it up AND will go to the source of their angst.

many women otoh, avoid the aforementioned, and take it out on their colleagues...

whether it is conscious or subconscious, remains to be seen.

the bottom line for me, is i'm not fully understanding why you're taking this personally?

if you do not consider yourself 'one of those women', then why take offense?

i've worked w/some outstanding women, and some obnoxious men.

but overall, i stand by my contentions...

that until women (again, overall) start becoming more secure within themselves, undesirable behaviors will continue to cycle and escalate...

contributing to an ever-existing, stressful workplace.

leslie

[clemmm78, RN]

Thanks for the comments. I don't take the line personally. I just find it funny that *women* blame women for bad environments. It's as if the woman doing the blaming is perfect but the other women around them aren't. That's all.

[leslie :-D]

Thanks for the comments. I don't take the line personally. I just find it funny that *women* blame women for bad environments. It's as if the woman doing the blaming is perfect but the other women around them aren't. That's all.

no...

the women doing the blaming, are typically known as b*tches, didn't you know?:)

...not to be confused w/passive-aggressive and catty...

leslie

[Aramid,PhlRN]

I'm a male R.N. and I believe it is the work ethics that matter. I was the only male nurse back in the Communicable disease ward 2 months ago and it feels good to help my colleagues transfer patients.

[canesdukegirl, BSN, RN]

Yeah, I prefer working with men but only because I was raised with 3 brothers and understand how men think, work, and process. When I became a nurse, I worked with almost ALL women, and had to learn to choose my words carefully. I tend to be very direct and don't sugar coat a bad situation with skill. There is a job to be done, and I do it. I have the same expectation from my co-workers, as they do of me. I don't have the time (or the desire really) to treat everyone with kid gloves. I save that for my patients. That being said, I do take into consideration those nurses that work with me who are highly sensitive to every little comment and often twist my words to somehow make them seem like a victim. (Example: ME "Since your room finished your cases earlier than expected, I need to put another case in that room so another surgeon can catch up." CO-WORKER "This happens to me all the time! I finish early and this is the thanks I get from you for being efficient!" The reality of the situation is that there was a cancellation in the room and had nothing to do with efficiency.) I know myself and realize that this is my biggest pet peeve, so I have to do a deep breathing-count-to-ten moment before I say another word. I just have to be patient, speak with tact and be professional.

There are some women I work with that are straight shooters like myself, and GOD LOVE 'EM! They are few and far between, but they are a breath of fresh air to work with.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

It's not just working with "women" that's the problem. It's all the OLD women, especially the ugly ones, because they eat their young.