"She will not die. She does not have that permission from me."

[pockunit]

Did anyone else have a problem with this quote from the neurologist about Rep. Giffords?

YOU DON'T GET TO GIVE PERMISSION.

I get that he was using levity in a very dark situation. But it's representative of a general school of thought that very likely helps lead to overtreatment in futile situations.

But I may be crabby.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

I agree w/ heron et al. Doesn't bother me at all. I inferred that he meant he wasn't giving up on her, would not resign himself to fate, but fight like he!! If that's what gabby and her family want, then that's that attitude I'd want the head of her team to verbalize. I think some people look for reason to be offended....

[pockunit, ADN, RN]

Since it was an audio clip, it's pretty easy to tell his tone. But again, it's not about what he's been saying to her, it's about what he's saying to the public.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

He's just a physician, doing his job, minding his own business, when he was suddenly thrust into the public eye. He didnt look for publicity, didnt campaign. Hes just an ordinary man who ended up on TV through a twist of fate. I don't quite hold him to the standard of supreme court justice. I think some expect too much of mere humans.

[leslie :-D]

I don't think we disagree about speaking to the patients at all. I just don't like the doc perpetuating the view of docs as in charge of life and death to the public.

He should absolutely tell HER that he's not going to let her die. He should speak to her directly and say he's not going to let her die. That gives her a cheering section, as it were, and the idea that he thinks she is going to make it. I understand the power of words.

But for him to tell the public that it's his decision? *that's* my problem.

i didn't see it so cannot comment appropriately, i guess.

will get back to you, once i google and watch it.

leslie

[pockunit, ADN, RN]

Let me ask you all this: when fictional shows about nurses come on, why do nurses complain? Because these programs present an unrealistic image of the profession; of what nurses can and can't do, and what they represent. Just go back and read some of the threads about Nurse Jackie or situations on ER or Grey's. Those shows color how people see nurses.

This doctor's quote colors how people see his profession. That's all I'm saying. So many people already believe that docs are somehow superhuman, which does no service to either group.

And yes, they are mere humans, so they shouldn't be holding themselves up as being in charge of whether someone is allowed to die or not.

I don't know, maybe I just feel more strongly about this than you guys, but it really got under my skin.

[BluegrassRN]

Yes, I'll agree with you on that: you do feel more strongly about it than most of us.

[pockunit, ADN, RN]

I agree w/ heron et al. Doesn't bother me at all. I inferred that he meant he wasn't giving up on her, would not resign himself to fate, but fight like he!! If that's what gabby and her family want, then that's that attitude I'd want the head of her team to verbalize. I think some people look for reason to be offended....

I'm not offended. I'm trying to explain that words have meaning. He used words that reflect decades of belief about what docs think they can do, and how they treat patients because of those beliefs. It's time to change that.

[pockunit, ADN, RN]

Yes, I'll agree with you on that: you do feel more strongly about it than most of us.

I'm okay with that.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Let me ask you all this: when fictional shows about nurses come on, why do nurses complain? Because these programs present an unrealistic image of the profession; of what nurses can and can't do, and what they represent. Just go back and read some of the threads about Nurse Jackie or situations on ER or Grey's. Those shows color how people see nurses.

This doctor's quote colors how people see his profession. That's all I'm saying. So many people already believe that docs are somehow superhuman, which does no service to either group.

And yes, they are mere humans, so they shouldn't be holding themselves up as being in charge of whether someone is allowed to die or not.

I don't know, maybe I just feel more strongly about this than you guys, but it really got under my skin.

IMO, I just really think you're reading way too much into his words and assigning way too much meaning than what he intended by it.

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

Did anyone else have a problem with this quote from the neurologist about Rep. Giffords?

YOU DON'T GET TO GIVE PERMISSION.

I get that he was using levity in a very dark situation. But it's representative of a general school of thought that very likely helps lead to overtreatment in futile situations.

But I may be crabby.

I think you're a little crabby and a little right.

I had a patient in school who was not doing well and was deciding whether to continue treatment or go in to hospice. I made what I meant to be a light hearted joke that he wasn't allowed to die on me during my shift (kinda like a "no monkey business from you today sir!"). I immediately regretted saying it and luckily it didn't have a negative impact on our working relationship. He didn't need the baggage of knowing that him dying would upset his nursing student. We ended up having a really good talk about his life, his treatment options, the recovery what the treatment wasn't going to cure. I mostly just listened and asked him questions and he decided to go to hospice.

I think the doc is probably just responding to the tragedy of it: no one can take back what happened but gosh darn it, maybe they can at least stand in the way of death. Also, as someone who has worked with media before, a simple, innocent comment (or quip, or verbal diarrhea moment) can come out completely wrong once it's seen in print and out of context. Trying to read the comment without my nurse hat, I think I'd just interpret it to them doing their best to save her, not that they're going to engage in futile treatment.

I think all the medical TV shows that show people recovering 100% from cardiac arrests probably do more to promote the idea that it's always the right thing to do everything and never give up that this one comment.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

I'm not offended. I'm trying to explain that words have meaning. He used words that reflect decades of belief about what docs think they can do, and how they treat patients because of those beliefs. It's time to change that.

I think you are inferring something that is not implied. In other words, it's you, not him.

[pockunit, ADN, RN]

I think what it comes down to is that I'm inferring is historical context (history of medicine major, so it's a hard habit to break), and maybe other people don't see that. It's okay, I'm happy being right.