i work in a very populous state on the east coast. yet when i look up actions taken against nursing licenses, i get a list of about 50 nurses who have had action taken, some of them going back as far as 2003! there are hospitals near here with over 1000 beds -- how many nurses do you think are employed in just one 1000 bed hospital? how many nurses do you think are employed in just one city like new york, dc, baltimore, philadelphia or boston?
when i lived in wisconsin, i'd get a newsletter quarterly with about 20-25 names of nurses with pending disciplinary action. only a few of those nurses had actually lost their licenses. so where is all this hysteria about "loosing" a nursing license coming from?
we have new grads quitting their jobs after mere months because they're afraid they might "loose" their license -- and by the way, the work is too hard, the hours suck and the other nurses are mean to them. now there's a thread about brutal doctors and calling them -- and someone brings up fear that they might lose their license. what's up with all of this? are nursing schools scaring people silly about the idea of losing your license? or is this just an excuse people are grasping to avoid things they'd rather avoid?
Nurse claimed ignorance as school "never told her she needed CEUs". State said no excuse it's your professional responsibility... Fine & sanction on license. There are quite a few others on the BoN site.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
And if you do all 30 CEUs by April 30th of your renewal year, you are compliant. If you don't start until May 1 and claim you completed them you are in violation. No law saying you must stagger them over the 2 year renewal period, how you get the 30 CEUs completed doesn't matter as long as all completed before license expiration. & new period starts.
And if you do all 30 CEUs by April 30th of your renewal year, you are compliant. If you don't start until May 1 and claim you completed them you are in violation. No law saying you must stagger them over the 2 year renewal period, how you get the 30 CEUs completed doesn't matter as long as all completed before license expiration. & new period starts.
That is not what the other nurses were implying.
They were saying the 30 Ceu's have to be spread out over a 2 yr period.
Meaning if someone completed no Ceu's in 2013 but completed all of them in 2014 (before May)
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
No it's not. No one said the CEUs had to be spread out. If you took certain high CEU classes (some trach vent classes are worth 30 CEUs) you can be done in a short period of time. So if you renew in April 2014, finish 30 CEU on May 2 you are good through April 2016.
In the other thread it was stated that NO CEUs were completed in the 2 year period prior to renewal and the nurse subsequently indicated on renewal application CEUs were completed when they were in fact not even attempted. That is fraud and actionable by the BoN as evidenced by above link.
If you don't believe by the third year your students haven't developed critical thinking skiil to make clinical judgements ( not autonomously), there is a problem.
Also, it is a form of intimidation for any clinical instructor to lie to a student & tell him/her they're working under your license.
Your examples, once again, are out of context to the statement. I can find any extreme to why an experienced nurse wouldn't be able to make the same nursing judgements as another. I stand by my statement, without faltering, students need to learn independence during school!
GRN- I think you're a wonderful educator.
But, it boils me when I watch the students come on my unit and still have to ask the instructor what a bladder scanner is, how to manage a indwelling catheter, what's the lab values for PT & PTT...there is no learning there, it's spoon feeding.
(See quote below, post #56)
Therefore, they need to teach you early on you are working under your own license merit.
However, the licensed nurse has, by definition, demonstrated competence for autonomous practice by passing nursing school and NCLEX (no, I will not start in on what that basic level actually is...but the state has to draw the line somewhere, and that's where it is). A student has not. I do, in fact, expect students to develop some judgment as they go along, but as with raising teenagers, independence comes at a cost -- experience. Students get to be independent in small (increasing) steps as they come along. But from a strictly legal standpoint, no, they cannot exceed their training level and it is prudent to see that they know that.
It would boil me too, to have a student not know normal labs for coag studies. It is quite possible, though, that since it's harder and harder to afford the latest and greatest (or even bladder scanners) in school learning labs, and there's nothing like seeing your first Foley to make your mind blank out, that a student who wants those questions answered can be guided along through questions they should be able to answer. If students have never seen a bladder scanner, it's OK by me if they ask you (I am sorry if that annoys you; call the instructor if you don't have time to do a demo). I would want to know if a student is truly clueless about the Foley, though, because s/he ought to have at least read about it by now.
And if you do all 30 CEUs by April 30th of your renewal year, you are compliant. If you don't start until May 1 and claim you completed them you are in violation. No law saying you must stagger them over the 2 year renewal period, how you get the 30 CEUs completed doesn't matter as long as all completed before license expiration. & new period starts.
Maybe i misunderstood. I thought they had to be spread out over the 2 yr period.
Someone pointed out that the courses where you earn 1.5 Ceu's don't count.
I just did a bunch of those too so i have to research that.
Students are not under the nursing instructor's license?
That is something i never knew.
My nursing instructors always used that as an excuse on why we were not allowed to do any skills when they were not around.
Question....whose license do students work under?
If a student makes a fatal med error,who is responsible?
Again, students work under the auspices of their educational program. They are responsible for not exceeding their training and educational goals as specified in their curricula. They do not work under anybody's license.
If a student makes a fatal error, she is responsible for exceeding her level of practice, as it is extremely unlikely that any student would be put in a position where she could make such an error without exceeding her authority. This means giving IV push meds, for example, or giving the wrong dose to the patient. She either knows the 5 rights, or knows the protocols for staff/instructor supervision, or how to do a procedure, or not, whatever it is. Either way, it is her own responsibility. If the rule is she cannot do a task without an instructor present, then it is on her if she does and harm results. Th instructor cannot be watching everyone simultaneously; students have responsibilities too.
For example, I don't know anyplace that would let any student give a neuromuscular blocker without supervision, and if she did, it would be up to her to defend herself. The question would be short and sweet: "Miss SuzieQ Student, did the protocols of the unit allow you to administer this medication without direct supervision by a RN staff member or your instructor? No? Were you made aware of that policy? Yes? OK, we're done here." "Ms StaffRN, describe your orientation with Miss SuzieQ. Did you describe neuromuscular blockade to her? Yes? Did you specifically tell her that she, as a student, could not administer this medication without your direct supervision or that of another staff RN in your absence? Yes? So when you returned from your lunch break and discovered that she had done so, what was your reaction?"
I can't tell you why instructors tell you that. It's not true, and they may be using it as shorthand for "You are here as a student in the program; I am your instructor and represent the program in this building." That says nothing about licensure. Students are adults and responsible for their own behaviors.
Again, students work under the auspices of their educational program. They are responsible for not exceeding their training and educational goals as specified in their curricula. They do not work under anybody's license.
If a student makes a fatal error, she is responsible for exceeding her level of practice, as it is extremely unlikely that any student would be put in a position where she could make such an error without exceeding her authority. This means giving IV push meds, for example, or giving the wrong dose to the patient. She either knows the 5 rights, or knows the protocols for staff/instructor supervision, or how to do a procedure, or not, whatever it is. Either way, it is her own responsibility. If the rule is she cannot do a task without an instructor present, then it is on her if she does and harm results. Th instructor cannot be watching everyone simultaneously; students have responsibilities too.
For example, I don't know anyplace that would let any student give a neuromuscular blocker without supervision, and if she did, it would be up to her to defend herself. The question would be short and sweet: "Miss SuzieQ Student, did the protocols of the unit allow you to administer this medication without direct supervision by a RN staff member or your instructor? No? Were you made aware of that policy? Yes? OK, we're done here." "Ms StaffRN, describe your orientation with Miss SuzieQ. Did you describe neuromuscular blockade to her? Yes? Did you specifically tell her that she, as a student, could not administer this medication without your direct supervision or that of another staff RN in your absence? Yes? So when you returned from your lunch break and discovered that she had done so, what was your reaction?"
I can't tell you why instructors tell you that. It's not true, and they may be using it as shorthand for "You are here as a student in the program; I am your instructor and represent the program in this building." That says nothing about licensure. Students are adults and responsible for their own behaviors.[/QUOTe
I guess the student would go before the Board?
I'm not sure how that would work because students do not have licenses.
Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
Just like any person practicing nursing without a license can be fined and sanctioned by the BoN and subsequently referred to the state attorney general for criminal prosecution, so can a student nurse practicing out of scope. The BoN is there for public safety. If you look at a BoN website there are many unlicensed individuals that are ordered to appear before the BoN disciplinary committee.
I'm not sure how that would work because students do not have licenses.
I expect the first level of discipline/16-ton weight falling would be from the nursing program.
Getting thrown out of school for disregarding strict rules and causing patient injury is pretty much a career-ending knee injury, in that you'd have to explain why you left your old program so suddenly when you try to apply to a new one.
JustBeachyNurse, LPN
13,957 Posts
Your license can be sanctioned and a fine issued if you fail to complete CEUs or lie on your renewal application.
Case in point:
http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/action/20130625_26NP06228100.pdf
Nurse claimed ignorance as school "never told her she needed CEUs". State said no excuse it's your professional responsibility... Fine & sanction on license. There are quite a few others on the BoN site.