"Just" a 2-year degree

[RNsRWe]

Stopped at local pharmacy to pick up prescription. Asked pharm tech how her daughter was (she's a traveling nurse); she said great, we briefly discussed how she's deciding between staying and moving on, compensations etc. I said that I heard that travelers out her way made some really good money.....and the pharm tech said "well, you guys here make really good money with just a two year degree." JUST. Said in such a way as to make me think she equated my educational experience with a humanities major. Hey: poetry, history, nursing, all the same stuff, right?

I said you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who finishes an RN program in only 2 years nowadays. She shrugged, said her daughter "blew through" it (ten years ago or so). She didn't want to hear that things have changed a TAD since then.

Sigh. I think I'll take up basket-weaving. Appears I'm qualified.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better

I'll ignore your last presumption that an ADN is better than a BSN, because you're allowed that opinion and I respect that. I would get really angry too if someone said the ADN program was "easy". To date it it's the hardest thing I have ever done.

However, please don't presume that the difference between the BSN and ADN is a few BS courses like history, government and math. It includes courses such as nursing research, community health, leadership and in NLN approved programs it includes more detailed assessment and patho. courses. Do these courses make the person a better bedside nurse than an ADN?.....of course not. But please don't insult the BSN program with such presumptions that it's just a few irrellavent courses.

You're very correct that ADN grads enjoy the same job opportunities at the same salary as a BSN nurse. Any place that is looking for an RN doesn't really care where you degree is from and like you said some recruiters have a preference for the ADN, thinking (falsely in most cases) that BSNs don't get enough clinical time. Of course there are places like the poster above where the opposite is the case. Around here, it doesn't matter.

However, there is value in getting the BSN for opportunities away from the bedside, and I find myself with 15 years as ADN ready to do something different, and I feel the BSN will offer me some opportunties. The BSN required jobs in my hospital are in education, case management, quality, management, risk management, and patient safety. ADN's need not apply.

However, in my program I know there are ADNs doing all sorts of things, so I guess it just depends on where you are.

I certainly don't want to say one degree is better, and as an ADN graduate I know how tough and demanding that degree is and it's done me very well and I'm proud of it. But to build up my esteem at having an ADN, I don't need to tear down the value of the BSN. :monkeydance:

Back to our regularly scheduled show.

[Works2xs]

In my previous career, it was a straight forward assumption that higher education equated to higher pay levels. Yes, there were those who made money out of proportion to thier peers, but that was fairly rare and typically limited to those who were prodigies or people who worked/ate/drank their job to some gawd-awful degree.

So it doesn't strike me as odd that the pharm tech would say the equivalent of "wow! that's good pay for a two-year degree". Isn't that a good thing? If you were a teacher, you'd need a master's degree to make the same sort of starting pay that a ADN can get (at least in my area). The fact that it doesn't make any appreciable difference if you have a ADN or a BSN should be the real surprise.

[txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN]

It is hard to get into any nursing school in the DFW area. Most of the people I talk to on here do not have a 4.0 and are in at El Centro. I thought the average was more like 3.7 or so. Anyway , it is just about even across the board here in the DFW area. Just for the record Iwas told by the nursing admissions office that the GPA requirments for the transition program are not all that stiff. Someone else mentioned that most everyone that applied to the transition program got in at DCC. Not all BSN grads and ADN grads are paid the same either.. depends on your positon and location. I dont think it makes a hill of beans if you have a ADN or BSN except if you want in upper management or you want to be a CRNA something along that line. BSN schools are not easy to get into so Im not sure where all that is coming from. They may have more open slots to fill and therefore allow more students but easier .. I dont know about that. Nursing programs with a transition programs often allow slots for those LVN - RN students to join the generic program students and that cuts down on the slots during admission as well. There is also more involved to a BSN program than extra courses in Hist or Gov, you have all kinds of upper level nursing courses you are required to take. I personally could care less where I go .. no preferance here. Even though I have all the pre-classes done for my BSN ..I still would rather do the ADN route to get done faster then take the online BSN course. But my intentions are headed to Corp nursing..

to a two year program as an "easy" nursing program or in this case "just" a 2 yr degree...

I go to El Centro College, part of Dallas County Community Colleges... and I can't TELL YOU how many people are DENIED acceptance into El Centro's nursing program, so they resort to going to the 4 year programs...

They bust our butts SO much harder than the 4 years around here... I've even seen nurses in the hospital that will refuse to work with students that aren't from a two year program because they really can't handle too much and quite a few are clinically inept... The professors at the 4 yrs also tell their students not to even COMPARE themselves with us because they won't even come close to our clinical abilities coming OUT of SCHOOL until at least 6 months of working as a full time RN...

In order to even THINK about getting into our program, you are required to have a 4.0 GPA on all your pre-reqs... If you don't, you can forget it... Our MINIMUM passing grade is a 78.. Our HESI requirements are even HIGHER than any other college nearby! Just a few weeks ago I had a friend that said I went to the "easy" nursing school. I flipped. First, she couldn't even get INTO my college, that's why she went to the BSN... And second, the NCLEX passing rate is a 97% at my school vs. a 91% at most of the BSN programs around here...

What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better

[rn/writer, RN]

Unfortunately, this thread will probably be shut down soon. It seems that whenever the subject of ADN vs. BSN comes up, it turns ugly.

What bothers me most about this ongoing debate is that when all is said and done, it's nurses fighting other nurses.

I can't help but wonder if the other disciplines pick up the lack of respect we have within our own ranks and feel free to jump on the bandwagon.

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

unfortunately, this thread will probably be shut down soon. it seems that whenever the subject of adn vs. bsn comes up, it turns ugly.

what bothers me most about this ongoing debate is that when all is said and done, it's nurses fighting other nurses.

i can't help but wonder if the other disciplines pick up the lack of respect we have within our own ranks and feel free to jump on the bandwagon.

agreed....and i'm the one who started this thing! well, this thread anyway, not the current argument.

to the posters who have recently explained the pharm tech's point of view, i truly appreciate it. i probably was overreacting, and probably a little overly sensitive to the tone of her comments. on paper, it does look less grating (or even like nothing) but in person, well....i felt it as a put-down.

perhaps it came out of her own experience with her own 2-year degree, maybe current or maybe something in her past. i don't know. i hear what you have said about not reading into her comments what wasn't there....it's only because i could hear her tone and get a sense that there was a bit of "something" there that it bothered me at all. and, probably, because i do have a bullsh**t associates degree in another field already and i know the difference between that and my rn, my teeth gritted. i expected someone sort of "in the field" to know that, too, but i'll get over it, i promise :)

thanks for the feedback on my original vent.

[scaredofshots]

TWO YEARS? Where did you all go to school?? When I graduate with my R N I will have a total of THREE years. One year for pre req's and two years nursing... If I choose I can get another year and add the letter BS to my title...:mortarboard:

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

TWO YEARS? Where did you all go to school?? When I graduate with my R N I will have a total of THREE years. One year for pre req's and two years nursing... If I choose I can get another year and add the letter BS to my title...:mortarboard:

Back in a day it was a two-year program and still is in many places. Many programs call what you call "pre-reqs" co-reqs that can be taken alongside the other courses and be completed in two years. With waiting lists few people just walk in and take it in two years, but that's how associate degrees were designed to work........two years.

[BSNtobe2009]

Just for the record...nobody said a 2-year nursing degree was easy. No one said it wasn't hard to get into. All nursing programs are turning away qualified applicants. I moved because all of the nursing programs where I originally was had 300 students competing for only 65 slots. I moved to where the odds were more like 150 to 55.

However, it would be misleading to say that ASN's have the exact same privileges as a BSN in hospitals. That is the entire reason why I am going to go forward after I finish my ASN even though I have a BS in another field. If you never want to get promoted, be a charge nurse, or work at some magnet hospitals, then an ASN is perfectly fine. However, if you ever become disabled and can't do the physical work of hospital nursing, you can work for just about any pharmaceutical company and receive top consideration for employment, but without a BSN, your resume won't even be considered.

Also, some of the magnet hospitals won't hire you unless you have a BSN, because they want to be able to ADVERTISE that their nurses all have BSN's.

The point of the original post was that the original poster thought the pharmacy tech was insulting her level of education, and that isn't what happened at all.

Maybe I'm different, maybe I'm weird, but I've never been "hung up" on the letters after my name. To me, I'm planning on doing what it takes to earn the degree it takes to reach my long-term career goals while being financially independent.

It pisses me off like no other when someone refers to a two year program as an "easy" nursing program or in this case "just" a 2 yr degree...

I go to El Centro College, part of Dallas County Community Colleges... and I can't TELL YOU how many people are DENIED acceptance into El Centro's nursing program, so they resort to going to the 4 year programs...

They bust our butts SO much harder than the 4 years around here... I've even seen nurses in the hospital that will refuse to work with students that aren't from a two year program because they really can't handle too much and quite a few are clinically inept... The professors at the 4 yrs also tell their students not to even COMPARE themselves with us because they won't even come close to our clinical abilities coming OUT of SCHOOL until at least 6 months of working as a full time RN...

In order to even THINK about getting into our program, you are required to have a 4.0 GPA on all your pre-reqs... If you don't, you can forget it... Our MINIMUM passing grade is a 78.. Our HESI requirements are even HIGHER than any other college nearby! Just a few weeks ago I had a friend that said I went to the "easy" nursing school. I flipped. First, she couldn't even get INTO my college, that's why she went to the BSN... And second, the NCLEX passing rate is a 97% at my school vs. a 91% at most of the BSN programs around here...

What is boils down to... you don't need all those BS courses to make you a safe, efficient, and knowledgeable nurse.. how is history, government, statistics, upper level math, all of those BS classes EVER.. EVER going to come into play in NURSING... fact is, ITS NOT.. thats HOW the two year degree came about =)

And about getting more opportunities if you have a BSN... I am applying for RN positions now, and.... I haven't noticed any place that I am not allowed to work because I will have an ADN... In fact... I was one of the first people offered a position at PARKLAND's ER & L/D... the L&D being the 2nd busiest in the WORLD... The only opportunities that we MAY be denied.. is charge nurse (which I've seen ADNs assume that role on MULTIPLE occasions), and a nurse manager...

IN MY OPINION, if you plan to STAY an RN and decide against furthering your education, I think the best route to obtain your RN is with an ADN... Simply because why spend ALL of the money and the EXTRA YEAR to get a BSN, when really.. we're all paid the same... BSNs don't get paid any more than ADNs.. So... ADN is CHEAPER and FASTER... and better

[tiredfeetED]

Wow...the bottom line is that ADN or BSN your a RN.... remember why you came into the field, to help people. Treat your patients and each other with respect please! Now back to your bickering!

[SeanyRN]

TWO YEARS? Where did you all go to school?? When I graduate with my R N I will have a total of THREE years. One year for pre req's and two years nursing... If I choose I can get another year and add the letter BS to my title...:mortarboard:

If it takes 2 years to grad a 2 year program, how long would it take for you to grad. a 4 year program?

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

If it takes 2 years to grad a 2 year program, how long would it take for you to grad. a 4 year program?

I'm due to graduate with my BSN in next summer. All in all it took me about, since........oh 1981 to get my 4 year degree. :lol2:

[Alexsys]

I am a ADN now and will have my BSN in April.:balloons: :mortarboard: :balloons: Afterward, I DO plan to go farther, but that is MY choice. I dont think anyone thinks that getting a higher education is intimidating and I cant fathom why you are saying that. Maybe some people dont want to go on and that is THEIR choice,it is not that they feel inferior unless they are letting your words do so. Puting down ADN's is not the way to go. That just tells me you lack experience in the nursing field. We are supposed to work together, not tear anyone down because of their education level.

(some content edited out to decrease inflammatory tone)