"I do the same thing as an RN"

[WheresMyPen]

Although this statement may be somewhat true depending on what state you live and where you work. I see that it doesn't go lightly with RNs sometimes and I see why. They did more schooling, and those differences in scope of practice can create challenges for them. I do my own admissions and RNs co-sign. I have never written inaccurate info but I imagine if I had, it would put a lot of stress on my RN colleague. I do 95% of the same skills in LTC but when I need to do IV push I need to pull the RN from her own patients to help with mine. I am a team player so when this happens I usually go stock her cart and check her blood sugars. We work well together. We respect each other, but we don't have the same license and I can't do 100% of her job. That doesn't make me any less of a nurse but it doesn't make me an RN either.

We are colleagues, we are nurses. We help each other. But I am in school for bsn and realize it's not the same.

Saying that that you could do everything an RN does is not only inaccurate but it perpetuates the divide. Why not just say,you are a great nurse. You do your job well and you are needed and valued. My RNs need me and I need them.

[WheresMyPen]

Yep, this has been talked about a million times before

im new here and I didn't see any posts like this yet. But I've seen a lot of negative comments on other posts and wanted to address it

[cherryelle07]

I've heard a lot of talk about LPNs being phased out. The FNP I work with even advised me to go straight for my ADN for this reason. I wouldn't be surprised if ADNs are phased out and BSNs are the standard for entry level nursing thanks to the quest for Magnet Status.

[WheresMyPen]

I've heard a lot of talk about LPNs being phased out. The FNP I work with even advised me to go straight for my ADN for this reason. I wouldn't be surprised if ADNs are phased out and BSNs are the standard for entry level nursing thanks to the quest for Magnet Status.

i don't believe that LPNS or ADNS will ever be completely phased out. A lot of LTC places aren't going to do that. But magnet hospitals in my area have already phased out LPNS and ADNS and I don't agree with it but it's happened.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

Scope of practice varies so much state to state but I am in one of the states where there is very little difference in the scope for LTC nurses. There is actually specific language in the nurse practice act that addresses the expanded scope for LPN's in a LTC setting. That being said there are some company regulations where I work that preclude LPN's from a few tasks that they could otherwise do. Anything involving IV's and blood draws in particular. Other than that, there is really no difference. Even the assertion that LPN's are not allowed to perform assessments is a very gray area. They do post fall neuro assessments. The initial fall assessment is supposed to be from an RN and I don't know if there has been a fall yet when we had no RN's in the building. This happens very rarely on a NOC shift and I would be curious to know how this is handled when it does happen. They complete admission assessments, they do discharge teaching, they do weekly assessments as scheduled.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Scope of practice varies so much state to state but I am in one of the states where there is very little difference in the scope for LTC nurses. There is actually specific language in the nurse practice act that addresses the expanded scope for LPN's in a LTC setting. That being said there are some company regulations where I work that preclude LPN's from a few tasks that they could otherwise do. Anything involving IV's and blood draws in particular. Other than that, there is really no difference. Even the assertion that LPN's are not allowed to perform assessments is a very gray area. They do post fall neuro assessments. The initial fall assessment is supposed to be from an RN and I don't know if there has been a fall yet when we had no RN's in the building. This happens very rarely on a NOC shift and I would be curious to know how this is handled when it does happen. They complete admission assessments, they do discharge teaching, they do weekly assessments as scheduled.

Usually the assessment issue is that LPNs may do focused assessments, but not comprehensive assessments.

[NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN]

im new here and I didn't see any posts like this yet. But I've seen a lot of negative comments on other posts and wanted to address it

"This has already been said" is a weak slapdown of somone trying to start a thoughtful thread. Someone said it to me on one of the first threads I created, for sharing something small a patient did that made me smile. Thanks for sharing, WheresMyPen.

[Maevish, ASN, RN]

I was an LVN for 12 years and in general it is not a slight difference, it's a huge difference and in few cases is it really all that similar. This all comes from people thinking they understand other people's roles when they don't. Same goes for lvn or RN vs cnas. Nurses seem to believe most are crap and don't do their work. They just forget how long things can really take. It's very sad.

While that is true, in my experience, there are also loads of CNAs who try to do as little as possible and even ignore their patients. I worked with (and reported) one who actually was making up vital signs so she didn't have to do her vitals, which I'd never thought would happen. The truly GOOD CNAs are absolutely magnificant (I'm lucky to have 3 of them in my immediate family and have gotten to work with 2 of them at certain points) and help SO much. The backlash comes when people work with aids who almost make our jobs harder because you either can't trust them or you have to re-do whatever they say they've just done. That sucks.

I don't have as much experience with LVNs because I never see them in ICU, but years ago when I floated to a part of the hospital where they used them, they were great! As far as I'm concerned there's not that big a difference between LVNs and RNs because IV meds are potentially lethal (and you do need pharmacology, but LVNs have that), but so is blood and you can kill someone just as quickly with that. I've worked with a few and they can be awesome and can know more than a lot of RNs because I think, maybe, that some feel like they have to "try harder" because people demean them at times (they'll say "I'm just an LVN"), which is bollocks.

We're all on the same team, we just do different jobs, so let's all get along! lol

P.S. Also, if you're a CNA, don't tell me you're a nurse or a nursing student when you're no where near nursing school:cheeky:

xo

[WheresMyPen]

While that is true, in my experience, there are also loads of CNAs who try to do as little as possible and even ignore their patients. I worked with (and reported) one who actually was making up vital signs so she didn't have to do her vitals, which I'd never thought would happen. The truly GOOD CNAs are absolutely magnificant (I'm lucky to have 3 of them in my immediate family and have gotten to work with 2 of them at certain points) and help SO much. The backlash comes when people work with aids who almost make our jobs harder because you either can't trust them or you have to re-do whatever they say they've just done. That sucks.

I don't have as much experience with LVNs because I never see them in ICU, but years ago when I floated to a part of the hospital where they used them, they were great! As far as I'm concerned there's not that big a difference between LVNs and RNs because IV meds are potentially lethal (and you do need pharmacology, but LVNs have that), but so is blood and you can kill someone just as quickly with that. I've worked with a few and they can be awesome and can know more than a lot of RNs because I think, maybe, that some feel like they have to "try harder" because people demean them at times (they'll say "I'm just an LVN"), which is bollocks.

We're all on the same team, we just do different jobs, so let's all get along! lol

P.S. Also, if you're a CNA, don't tell me you're a nurse or a nursing student when you're no where near nursing school:cheeky:

xo

i think there are lazy people in all roles. I've worked with good CNAs, good RNs, good LPNS, good doctors.. Also with really lazy ones of all kinds :/

guess it depends on if your heart is in what you're doing. Not doing vitals? That's dangerous. Shame on that person. I saw a nurse give a BP med without taking a BP and HR when I was orienting. Horrible. She made the vitals up in the mar.

[Maevish, ASN, RN]

In Texas, the line is extremely thin so this conversation has become a hot topic down here. Just for example...

I've seen posts regarding an LPN's inability to push IV meds or even start IVs, both things LVNs do in Texas except for very specific drugs (and truth be told, those very specific drugs also tend to be facility-dependent and based on previous negative incidents).

We can't spike a blood bag or do the first 15 minutes of monitoring, but everything else wrt blood transfusions is within our scope. We (well, any facility employee) can receive blood from the lab, monitor vitals, and complete the documentation.

We can't do an initial admission or post-op assessment, but we can do the interview and history.

We can't pull blood from a PICC line/midline or access/de-access a port-a-cath, but we can administer meds and fluids through both.

Hospitals around here have started phasing out hiring LVNs altogether and actually hiring RNs at a lower pay rate, which is pretty awful IMHO. I was one of the last LVNs to come up, and that was mainly because I was already an aide at my facility.

The major issue with LVNs now is that the state has started placing a higher level of liability on having them in specialty areas so a 20-year LVN can no longer work in the nursery she essentially helped to create. A coworker of mine was an ICU nurse for years before LVNs were removed from critical care. The pediatricians aren't comfortable with LVNs caring for their kiddos even though we're all PALS certified. It's all become a matter of liability, which I understand in this highly litigious society we live in.

I would never say I do the same job as an RN, but here at least, it's a very thin line between the two.

And here they can hang blood, but can't give IVP meds or hang any bag with more than just KcL added. Makes no sense to me. Just have them take another pharmacology/math for nurses class and be done with it.

xo

[NursesRmofun, ASN, RN]

I am a nurse with a lot of experience. I went through a period (because of the State I worked in) where LVN/LPNs did less as far as skills. I have since worked in states where LVN/LPNs are allowed to do much more....However, when all is said and done...the biggest differences are assessments and responsibility for the patient. I don't see such a divide anymore. I think the biggest divide is more about caring about the stresses of the others' job....and that is what is more deficient, at times. CNA work can be backbreaking. LVN/LPNS and RNs carry a lot of responsibility and need good CNAs to help get things done.

[WheresMyPen]

And here they can hang blood, but can't give IVP meds or hang any bag with more than just KcL added. Makes no sense to me. Just have them take another pharmacology/math for nurses class and be done with it.

xo

agreed!

[WheresMyPen]

I am a nurse with a lot of experience. I went through a period (because of the State I worked in) where LVN/LPNs did less as far as skills. I have since worked in states where LVN/LPNs are allowed to do much more....However, when all is said and done...the biggest differences are assessments and responsibility for the patient. I don't see such a divide anymore. I think the biggest divide is more about caring about the stresses of the others' job....and that is what is more deficient, at times. CNA work can be backbreaking. LVN/LPNS and RNs carry a lot of responsibility and need good CNAs to help get things done.

oh yea CNA's job is very demanding! I use to be a CNA and was damn good at it. I got muscles from that job!! I work noc shift and were poorly staffed with CNAs so my aides and I go room to room and change everyone! I couldn't do my job without them!