"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

Princess74 · Aug 11, 2005

Not all people have to take two years of pre-reqs. Especially those who have high school level chemistry, biology, and algerbra and test well on entrance exams. I could have done my ADN program in two years had I chose. It's interesting though that with the advent of long waiting lists the ADN program has added a year of pre-reqs to turn the degree into a three year program instead of the two it originally was intended to be.
Besides the two years that include liberal arts courses the difference in the BSN program here and ADN program is a separate course in community health, a more in-depth course in pharmacology, a separate course in pathophysiology, leadership, etc.
To say there isn't much difference in the degrees other than a few liberal arts coures is a bit misleading. However, it may be different where you are and if it were me, I'd bite the bullet for two semesters and get the BSN if it truly is only a matter of a few liberal arts courses.
The core nursing courses that prepare you for the beside and NCLEX are the same however.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm an ADN graduate and I believe ADN schools to be tough, rigorous, thorough and that they produce top notch nurses ready for the bedside the same as a BSN program does. I'm only saying BSN programs and ADN programs are not the same here in this area.

Tweety,

Actually you are right. I had been given some bad information, so after reading your post I decided to actually go and personally look into the BSN program that I was interested in and find out EXACTLY what the differences were. There is a HUGE difference in the ASN and BSN programs. (the prereqs, coreqs, and the nursing classes). I found out exactly what classes I need for the BSN program that I would like to get into and I am starting my 4 year journey in exactly 1 week.:balloons: Thank you so much for opening my eyes. I am really glad that I am going into a BSN program, hopefully I get in on my first try. I'm doing the all my prereqs and coreqs at TCC (its so much cheaper per credit hour), before applying to the Accelerated BSN program at ODU.

~Michelle

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

Originally Posted by momandnurse28
Let me first start out by saying I am an ASN RN plannining on going onto at least my BSN. My feeling is that if we want to be taken seriously as a profession, a BSN should be the entry level. All other professionals recieve 4 year degrees. By only requiring 2 years or worse dimploma nurses- we are lumped into all the other technical fields- mechanics, electricians, hairdressers. Not to knock anyone at all...but, we are medical professionals who take people's lives into our hands everyday and I would personally feel better if all nurses had 4 years of college.

This post does knock people, whether or not it includes "not to knock anyone at all...":madface:

Just because people feel that the requirement should be 4 years doesn't mean that they must insult 2 year degrees, diplomas, or other fields that are "technical" in the process! How does THAT help the issue?!:angryfire

One of the first steps to being a medical professional is to act like one!

Tweety, BSN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

This post does knock people, whether or not it includes "not to knock anyone at all...":madface:
Just because people feel that the requirement should be 4 years doesn't mean that they must insult 2 year degrees, diplomas, or other fields that are "technical" in the process! How does THAT help the issue?!:angryfire
One of the first steps to being a medical professional is to act like one!

Agreed. While it is very difficult to advocate the BSN without stepping on toes, because I can say "I advocate the BSN as entry level" and people will read into it "What do you mean LPNs and ASNs aren't good enough? Humph...", saying things like "or worse diploma nurses" isn't getting us anywhere.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

Tweety,
Actually you are right. I had been given some bad information, so after reading your post I decided to actually go and personally look into the BSN program that I was interested in and find out EXACTLY what the differences were. There is a HUGE difference in the ASN and BSN programs. (the prereqs, coreqs, and the nursing classes). I found out exactly what classes I need for the BSN program that I would like to get into and I am starting my 4 year journey in exactly 1 week.:balloons: Thank you so much for opening my eyes. I am really glad that I am going into a BSN program, hopefully I get in on my first try. I'm doing the all my prereqs and coreqs at TCC (its so much cheaper per credit hour), before applying to the accelerated BSN program at ODU.
~Michelle

Good for you Michelle! There is indeed a difference between an ASN and BSN education. Kudos to you for staying open-minded enough to check it out. Kudos also for going for it from the start!

suzy253, RN · Aug 11, 2005

By only requiring 2 years or worse dimploma nurses
we are medical professionals who take people's lives into our hands everyday

1. Oh dear...I pity you. ...or worse diploma nurses??? You've got to be kidding--you are so misinformed. Do you know any diploma programs and what they teach. Why do state this without any facts? What is wrong with diploma programs?

2. Yes, I am a medical professional and soon-to-be graduate of a three-year diploma program.

oldnurse newnurse · Aug 11, 2005

Let me first start out by saying I am an ASN RN plannining on going onto at least my BSN. My feeling is that if we want to be taken seriously as a profession, a BSN should be the entry level. All other professionals recieve 4 year degrees. By only requiring 2 years or worse dimploma nurses- we are lumped into all the other technical fields- mechanics, electricians, hairdressers. Not to knock anyone at all...but, we are medical professionals who take people's lives into our hands everyday and I would personally feel better if all nurses had 4 years of college. You need four years to be a teacher, an accountant, or a biologist...why not nurse? I know this is a huge debate with many contributing factors- the nursing shortage, the lack of nursing intructors, ect...but I wanted to open it up to debate! I think this requirement would earn us more respect and maybe more wage. I know my program lacked some basic science, health promotion and maintainance, assessment and pharmacology classes that would have better prepared me as a nurse. My whole class felt lacking in Pharmacology and demanded the class be added only to be told there was no room in our 2 year program. This is just one school, but; I'm sure there are others out there with the same problem. What ever you decide...education is never a waste of time and money!

I agree that a BSN should be an entry level degree for the professional nurse. I also beleive that wages would be higher and the profession would be taken more seriously. Nursing is not taken seriously enough and that is a big problem. If time and finances permit I feel that all RN's should be required to have an entry levle BSN degree. Sorry. Oh I am a mother of three graduating 12/17/05 with my BSN and I started out as a LPN but wanted more out of nursing than just bedside nursing my LTG is CCRN-APN.

oldnurse newnurse · Aug 11, 2005

To suzy253 first of all I don't know what you already do in medical field but if you are about to graduate from a three year diploma program you should already know that this diploma thing is one of the main reasons the Government does not take nursing as a real profession as momandnurse was trying to explain. This is the main reason nursing is still considered blue collar jobs. I want to be considered a professional on all levels I take my career serious and some people just don't, for this same reason many RN's are being paid 14.00 or even worse 12.50 per hour in some states and you should already know the nurse should always act as the patient's advocate you are the first line of defense therapy and encourage for your patient and not to be considered a professional is terrible. Maybe that's why our work is so hard with little rewards some places don't even offer nurses a union or they do not have good employee incentives for the future retirement of nurses. There are so many nurses fighting to make this a real Profession so that we all can benefit. Start subscribing to peer reviewed nursing journals and read up on the real issues other than nursing shortage affecting our profession. Oldnurse(LPN) newnurse(R.N.-B.S.N.)

twinmommy+2, ADN, BSN, MSN · Aug 11, 2005

Ok, just have to add my $0.02 in.

I'm in an ADN program. I feel that even if people start in diploma programs or ADN programs, it would behove them to still attain their BSN AND MORE. Why stop there unless they are happy with where they are at.

But, BSN should not be made an ENTRY LEVEL for nursing, not yet. The shortage won't handle that kind of a change. Sure, nurses may POSSIBLY be looked apon with more clout than they have now. That problem may also have alot to do with the fact that it is still a mainly female profession. So there are other conciderations here than just the level of education for nurses.

It would also greatly discourage people from entering into nursing school if they had to attend a high priced 4 year school. I would never have been able to become a nurse if I had to go to a 4 year institution. My PELL grant wouldn't have covered it, leaving us with the balance which we wouldn't have been able to afford. Plus my high school GPA was nothing a 4 year uni would have accepted.

There are alot of people that fall under my circumstances. This is why we still need ADN programs and diploma programs.

ICRN2008, BSN, RN · Aug 11, 2005

I think I've read some accelerated BSN programs are only 12 months. :uhoh21:

There is one of these at Rush in Chicago. They require science and other pre-requisites, and are only for people with a previous bachelor's degree. I am in a program like this, only it lasts 16 months instead of 12.

Also, you are taking a huge credit load and going to school year-round in these types of programs. So you end up getting the same amount of clinical time as everyone else.

klj836 · Aug 12, 2005

You can go to school untill your teeth and hair fall out and that does not guarentee you will be a good competent nurse. Diploma nurse are some of the best nurses I have ever seen. The diploma programs in my state are at least 3 years and sometimes longer. The difference is they are trained in the hospital on the floor, clinical generally outweighs theory. I wanted to be a diploma nurse for the experience ,but could not make the drive. My second choice was a ADN program but the competition was way to stiff. I got into a very respectable BSN program and I am glad I got in somewhere. However, I am not sure I would have applied to the BSN program if I didn'thave my LVN skills to back me up. Now I know that the scope of practice is diferent in all that BLAH BLAH, but I have ran into to many BSN grads that scare the hell out of me. Like the BSN student that walked up to my teacher (who was a known ICU nurse ) and ask her.. No kidding..."I have this ampule ,now after I break the lid off how do I keep the patient from cutting his lip"... I'll tell you what i personally think (if the teachers and resources where present) ... flame if you want.... I think everyone wanting to be a nurse should have to climb the ladder, CNA,LVN,Diploma or ADN then BSN. If a BSN was the minimum degree there still no guarentee of respect as a whole. Just think if all nurses were BSN's (min requir) your either going to be respected or not respected as a whole. Most of the BSN nurses I know call me to hook up oxygen... You dont want that senerio universal, you will never get the respect you say the BSN's deserve. If I was in the hospital and had a choice between an Diploma nurse\ADN or a BSN, it's the Diploma nurse/ADN hands down. Now , having said all that I hope all this makes sense because I am so very tired.

As you progress in you studies you will understand the history of nursing and how the diploma, BSN, and ADN compare and where they came from. Nursing was primarily a "medicine based" practice - that means that we operated under the direction of the physician and autonomy and independent practice was non-existant. The demand for nursing was so great and primarily a task oriented practice thus the need to turn out the RN quickly. As a diploma nurse, I could work circles around the BSN and when in a position to hire always chose first the diploma, second the ADN and last the BSN. Nursing education/practice is changing and with the promotion of FNPs we are striving toward independent practice and recognition as a true "profession"

Altra, BSN, RN · Aug 12, 2005

To suzy253 first of all I don't know what you already do in medical field but if you are about to graduate from a three year diploma program you should already know that this diploma thing is one of the main reasons the Government does not take nursing as a real profession as momandnurse was trying to explain. This is the main reason nursing is still considered blue collar jobs. I want to be considered a professional on all levels I take my career serious and some people just don't, for this same reason many RN's are being paid 14.00 or even worse 12.50 per hour in some states and you should already know the nurse should always act as the patient's advocate you are the first line of defense therapy and encourage for your patient and not to be considered a professional is terrible. Maybe that's why our work is so hard with little rewards some places don't even offer nurses a union or they do not have good employee incentives for the future retirement of nurses. There are so many nurses fighting to make this a real Profession so that we all can benefit. Start subscribing to peer reviewed nursing journals and read up on the real issues other than nursing shortage affecting our profession. Oldnurse(LPN) newnurse(R.N.-B.S.N.)

Pay does not always reflect education. Ask any MSW (social worker with a master's degree) -- they'll have volumes to tell you ... or any of the people with bachelor's degrees or higher in liberal arts fields who are pouring your coffee at Starbucks. This may be unfortunate, but no one ever said that life was fair. Pay more directly reflects supply and demand in any particular geographic area.

I found it curious that you cite the lack of a uniform BSN requirement as holding back the nursing profession in terms of pay and professional stature, but then mention unions. But other professions associate unions with blue-collar workers. **No flames please, I am not anti-union.** Just an observation.

---proud, well-paid graduate of a diploma thing :wink2:

Annabelle57 · Aug 12, 2005

Oooh... well, I may be jumping into the frying pan here, but here are my two cents, for whatever they may be worth: :twocents:

For me, I am going the BSN route because -

--I know I want to get my MSN down the road

--All the ADN programs in the area are either way out of my price range or have 2-year waiting lists

--I already have my BA, and there's a great Accelerated BSN program 15 minutes from my home that takes 13 months to complete

Had it not been for the factors above, I feel completely comfortable and more than competent earning "just" an ADN once out on the nursing room floor. What I think gets missed, as someone said earlier, is the broad education you get from all the other classes. Maybe some people feel it's a waste of time, but I know that during my 1st degree, the classes I took outside my major had a profound impact on both my schooling and my thinking even outside the classroom. I don't know if studying Vietnam War-era American History, Yeats' poetry, jazz technique, or international politics will make an impact on how I insert a cath tube or wipe someone's bottom... but the invaluable "extra" education I received, which I don't consider extra, opened up more of the world for me in so many ways. It was because I took those other courses that I decided I wanted to be an RN, though none of them were specifically nursing courses.

I agree with previous posters: I feel just as safe in the hands of an ADN-trained nurse as a BSN-trained nurse. I don't think you would be wasting any time earning your BSN, and I don't think you would be less of a nurse (or a person) if you had just your ADN. I fully understand that for some, time and resources limit them to one or the other, and that's okay. But if you have the opportunity to do a BSN... do it. You will never regret the education or the experience you have.

Best of luck to you, whichever path you take.