Pt's FB pictures of me

[rse3]

I am a nursing student, and my dad is an ON/GYN. I recently helped him deliver a baby, and his pt took pictures of us and posted them on Facebook. I would like to have these pictures, as I hope to become a CNM, and would love to have a picture of my dad and me at my first delivery. (There are pics of us with and without the baby.)

Is it a HIPAA violation if I click on the "..." and save these pictures to my phone since she made them public on Facebook (we are not FB friends. I searched for her.) I really want these pictures, but want to have them legitimately. Thanks!

[ixchel]

If there were no identifiers please explain to me how the OP managed to find the photo.

I'm not sure how Facebook savvy you might be, but basically, if you are on Facebook, you can search people by first name and last name (or, apparently, by common interests, which it just learned from the most recent search function changes), and they pop up in results. When you click their name, everything they've shared on the public setting can be viewed by absolutely anyone, regardless of whether you are on each other's friend list or not. If any one of us knew her patient's name, we'd be able to find her and do the same.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I meant no patient identifiers in the photo.

The OP used the patient's name, which is privileged information, to do a Facebook search to find the photo. I teach graduate clinical classes and If this were my student I would flunk them.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

A hospital can have a policy that requests someone delete photos, however this is essentially voluntary as Hospital staff cannot confiscate the device the the person refuses, they can only removed from the property and given a trespass warning.

Unless you're in the bathroom, changing room, etc Hospital staff do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy and therefore aren't protected by privacy laws, and the hospital interior, equipment, etc certainly has no privacy expectations.

Here was the situation that brought this policy to my attention: ER doc refused to give a pt narcs. Nurse was going into the room to discharge the pt. As the nurse entered the room, the pt snapped her picture and said "I'm posting this on facebook and twitter to tell the world what a ***** you are." Not that I disagree with you on expectations of privacy, but does the nurse have any rights in this situation? (Sorry this is off the original topic of the thread, but just curious what a nurse can, if anything, do in such a situation.)

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

The OP used the patient's name, which is privileged information, to do a Facebook search to find the photo. I teach graduate clinical classes and If this were my student I would flunk them.

HIPAA violations are violations of PHI disclosure and access. The OP did not disclose anything, nor did she access PHI.

I'll concede that it might be a gray area, but you need to explain to me how, for example, googling a socially-prominent patient that has a Wikipedia page is a HIPAA violation? That's no different than searching FB when there are privacy settings to make one unsearchable, but they have not been used by the person you are searching for.

[pookyp, LPN]

I'm surprised the school let you do a rotation where your dad is the doctor. Conflict of interest?

We had to switch some students in my class due to family members on the floor where we were.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

I'm surprised the school let you do a rotation where your dad is the doctor. Conflict of interest?

Why? I could see if he played a role in the passing/failing aspect of her schooling...but just because she gets to observe (or help?) his pt's delivery? I think the real risk is that he might allow her to participate in a way not authorized by the school/facility.

[pookyp, LPN]

Why? I could see if he played a role in the passing/failing aspect of her schooling...but just because she gets to observe (or help?) his pt's delivery? I think the real risk is that he might allow her to participate in a way not authorized by the school/facility.

The latter is what I mean. We had a classmate that had an aunt that worked on our clinical floor and auntie was letting her do things we were NOT supposed to be doing yet.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

HIPAA violations are violations of PHI disclosure and access. The OP did not disclose anything nor did she access PHI. I'll concede that it might be a gray area, but you need to explain to me how, for example, googling a socially-prominent patient that has a Wikipedia page is a HIPAA violation? That's no different than searching FB when there are privacy settings to make one unsearchable, but they have not been used by the person you are searching for.[/quote']

I am well aware of the constraints of HIPAA and never did I mention it being a violation of HIPAA.

It is a violation of patient privacy and would get you removed from many nursing programs. We are not talking about a public personality being googled. We are talking about a specific individual that a student a sought out on the internet following a professional interaction with the intention of contacting. I think most can agree there is a problem there.

[ixchel]

Why? I could see if he played a role in the passing/failing aspect of her schooling...but just because she gets to observe (or help?) his pt's delivery? I think the real risk is that he might allow her to participate in a way not authorized by the school/facility.

That, and she may get more access to better clinical experiences than her peers, which, as a student, would really bother me if she were in my clinical group. We all pay the same tuition and should get a fair shot at similar experiences whenever possible.

[dudette10, MSN, RN]

I am well aware of the constraints of HIPAA and never did I mention it being a violation of HIPAA.

It is a violation of patient privacy and would get you removed from many nursing programs. We are not talking about a public personality being googled. We are talking about a specific individual that a student a sought out on the internet following a professional interaction with the intention of contacting. I think most can agree there is a problem there.

How is searching on the internet (whether it be google, FB, twitter) to reveal public pages a violation of patient privacy? The internet is NOT private and there is no assumption of privacy.

I really don't see a difference between googling a patient who is socially prominent and searching for a patient on FB. I've done the former. The platform for searching or what you have accomplished in your life makes a difference between a privacy violation or not? Both are former patients, both have not had their HIPAA rights violated.

I never commented on contacting the patient, but it is not something I would advise. We can agree there.

[TheGooch]

I don't think it is appropriate to look patients up on Facebook. In my program, we've been told we will be dismissed if we take anything with the patient's name out of the hospital, even if it says nothing else. I don't know if simply looking a person up on the internet would be the same kind of violation, but it seems close. As a patient, I would feel uncomfortable with a nurse, or student, I had contacted me through social media. If you had had a conversation asking for the photos while she was in your care, that would probably be a little different, but it sounds like that didn't happen.

I would think looking a patient up on Facebook would be wrong. She calls it that but others call it stalking. Sorry, there is no other way to put it but say she was wrong to do that.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Patients are a vulnerable population and if you think there is no difference in searching a public figure and a person whom you only know their information through a provider-patient interaction than I don't know what to say.

I am willing to be most employers would fire you for it and most instructors would dismiss you for it.