8:1 pt load, foreign nurses, let's import more to maintain profits, keep costs down!!

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Yesterday I worked an agency nurse shift for a hospital I had never been to. This was my first shift for the second agency I just signed up with. I was supposed to be telemetry, but was sent to Med/Surg. I started out with 7 pts, ended up with 8! The charge nurse doesn't even sign off orders there. There was one CNA to 12 pts, you had to write your own new medication orders on the MARs, and the place was a zoo!

I worked with a really nice CNA who said it's always like this, and that the agency nurse from yesterday, who had gone to hospitals all over the state, said this was the worst hospital she's ever been to. It's a for profit hospital, I was told. I told the agency that I'd never go there again. All the nurses there said that all agency nurses said the same thing.

One thing I noticed is that there are mostly foreign nurses there. They were from various places, India, Philippines, Africa. I had never seen so many foreign nurses.

Yes, I'm convinced, the importation of foreign nurses is a means to undercut the bargaining power of the American nurse, keep working conditions sub par, and keep profits margins up.

Let me add that I have nothing but respect for foreign nurses, but nevertheless I'm opposed to the importation of them for a nursing 'shortage' that only exists because American nurses won't work in deplorable conditions such as I saw yesterday. :no:

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Specializes in Peds.

Hi,

At my old job, I was routinely subject to 7-8 pts. per noc. With one CNA/Tech for 36 pts.

I'm a "half breed" - but other than me, every other nurse and tech on the unit was born and brought up USA.

This was good ol', midwest USA. Cornfield country.

Let me add that I have nothing but respect for foreign nurses, but nevertheless I'm opposed to the importation of them for a nursing 'shortage' that only exists because American nurses won't work in deplorable conditions such as I saw yesterday. :no:
So what's your solution?

Stop 'importing nurses' till nursing education in the US catches up to demand? You yourself said that "American nurses won't work in deplorable conditions such as I saw yesterday" - would you rather that those patients have no nurses at all until a solution can be arranged? If you were a patient on that floor - would you care if your nurse was "imported" or "american born"?

Yes, I'm convinced, the importation of foreign nurses is a means to undercut the bargaining power of the American nurse, keep working conditions sub par, and keep profits margins up.
Do you think that foreign nurses are subject to lower standards to aquire a license and are paid less than you are?

thanks,

Matthew

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Specializes in US Army.

Unfortunately this nightmare may become the norm in many hospitals across the US. Foreign nurses are more than willing to accept horrendous conditions and minimal pay for the opportunity to work in the USA.

Why hire one strong willed American nurse who knows his or her worth, when you can get 3 foreigners for less?

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

MY point is that this hospital's policy, rather than improve their ratios, is to employ foreign nurses at a high percentage. They are apparently the worst hospital in the region, as was admitted to me by the charge nurse. Coincidence that they also had an extremely high percentage of foreign nurses? I seriously doubt it, any more than I doubt that sweatshops employ mostly non-Americans, or new immigrants as their mainstay because native born Americans won't settle for inhumane working conditions as readily as desperate immigrants from poor countries.

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Your assignment didnt sound half bad to me. Atleast you had a cna and a charge nurse. I do the same every night on a tele floor 7 to1 pt ratio, the charge nurse has 6 to 1, a cna is a rare treat, no secretary to answer call bell, and you watch the monitor yourself. Needless to say we have problems when pep brady down and noone is at the desk to hear or see it. Consider yourself blessed. As for the foriegn nurses, just my observation but they are always concentrated on floors that noone else dares to go. I think they recruit them to these areas as if there is no other openings anywhere else where American nurses will hold out for other areas or go to the MD offices. Just my opinion ofcourse.

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You know I saw a study by some university professor. He said he looked at hundreds of cases where skilled labor was imported LEGALLY from other countries. He said that managment always claimed "they can't get qualified people in this country". Careful research by him showed that it was ALWAYS about cheap labor and about reducing cost. Those managment statements about "can't get qualified people in this country" were managment code talk for "we won't pay qualifed people what they are worth in this country" This was in all industries not just health care. I suspect nurses are imported into this country to keep cost down, attracting USA born nurses cost money and they don't want to spend it. Also, I suspect pleas to increase number of new grads by the healthcare industry is largely a cost containing mechanism. New grads are cheaper and it takes them a while to catch on to the fact they are being abused and then even a while longer to begin to protest. By then there is another batch of newbies to replace them.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Oh, this hospital has ratios of 10:1 for the nightshift, just thought I'd mention that.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Let me point out that, having an 8:1 ratio is dangerous, and it's equivalent to reducing wages. Yes, these nurses probably make the same as nurses in other hospitals, but their caseload is double. This type of pt load is unsafe, in my opinion.

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Let me point out that, having an 8:1 ratio is dangerous, and it's equivalent to reducing wages. Yes, these nurses probably make the same as nurses in other hospitals, but their caseload is double. This type of pt load is unsafe, in my opinion.

of course it's dangerous.

who could dispute that?

and yes, the hospital admin is saving $$...

paying for 8:1 versus 8:2

let's say there are 24 beds and nurse makes $50k, this hospital is saving $150k for 1 shift only!!

and, how does even one try to quantify what one's life is worth, which is exactly what we are endangering by agreeing to such caseloads???

for those who wonder "who will take care of these pts?", i suggest to stop being a martyr.

this is precisely why we remain disrespected.

sadly and yes, there will always be those who agree to working in such conditions.

as a result, it keeps working conditions unsafe, pt safety a non-issue, and our wages suppressed.

can't say it's all foreign nurses though.

as we know, it takes all kinds.

leslie

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I think they should "import" nursing instructors. It's awful that there are so many qualified pre-nursing students that get turned away from school because there aren't enough teachers. :(

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Specializes in midwifery, gen surgical, community.

When I worked on a surgical ward, we had 1 :16ratio on nights. I did my meds pass, repositioned patients, did all my obs, had nervous breakdown etc. I think it is probably like this in all NHS hospitals.

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Specializes in Medical and general practice now LTC.

Just like to point out that since Oct 2006 foreign nurses have been affected with retrogression and no visas. Also when the nurses go through the process the hospital has to pay the same as a US nurse. Not always fair to blame foreign nurses when it could be the hospital does have issues recruiting local US nurses. Don't get me wrong I do believe own country nurses should always be employed first before foreign nurses

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