You know those surgeons that when their patient is on their way to OR you ask the universe to please not let the surgeon kill this one, too?
When their patient asks you, "Is my surgeon any good?" You can't tell them the truth, a floor nurse would lose her job. You can't lie, that's not right.
How do you answer this question? I know how I used to do it, how do you respond? You have to admit, there are those surgeons that should be used during war time, operating on the enemy. Doogie Howser could give them some pointers. They are the docs keeping ICU busy.
I understand that. A dentist should not have a mortality stat but a trauma surgeon should. I guess I didn't make it clear in my OP that I do indeed refer to a surgeon with poor surgical skills. I thought I was clear, I guess I wasn't.
But how do you discern poor surgical skills from patients who are just more likely to have bad outcomes? Even the folks who design rating systems for surgeons struggle to come up with methods to untangle all the factors involved.
But how do you discern poor surgical skills from patients who are just more likely to have bad outcomes? Even the folks who design rating systems for surgeons struggle to come up with methods to untangle all the factors involved.
Seriously? As a nurse you can't tell which doctors have extremely poor outcomes on standard issue patients? Really?
A lot of this for me would be situational. Most patients are not that medically savvy, and may not have had any type of surgery before. Those are the patients I will lie to about a bad surgeon, and just pray that things go okay. If from interacting with them I can deduce if they have more experience and more savvy, and would be able to see through my BS, then I may be inclined to say "You always have the right to get a second opinion from another physician" or something along those lines. I wouldn't outright say the surgeon is terrible, run away, but I would try to strongly hint at it. Now if I knew the person, then I would outright say it if I thought the surgeon was terrible. I don't know of any surgeons who are outright terrible.
That goes for anesthesiologists too. Thankfully, almost all the anesthesiologists are people I would trust. But if I were to have elective surgery, I would specifically request NOT to have the one anesthesiologist who I wouldn't trust with a houseplant, let alone my life. And if I have to have emergent surgery, I would probably walk out AMA if I found he was the anesthesiologist on call and risk dying at home.
You know, a lot of these responses make me giggle, but I actually have experience with this sort of thing. I work in a teaching hospital. With fellows. So on July 1st, when the new batch rolls in and has never held a colonoscope in their hands, and the patient asks me, "is my doctor any good?" I usually say one of the following things:
Pt: My doctor seems a bit nervous. Is he new?
Me: No, ma'am! He's had more than SEVEN years of training!
WHICH IS TRUE. Because 4 years of med school + 3 years of internal medicine residency + starting a new fellowship = more than seven years
Pt: What do you think of Dr. X?
Me: Dr. X is a very nice guy, and he's very thorough.
WHICH IS TRUE. Dr. X is LOVELY personally. And what I don't mention is that Dr. X is thorough because he can't advance the scope past 10 cm and will probably spend an hour staring at the same place of the wall without once seeing the lumen before the faculty takes over.
Pt: Am I safe? I'm not sure about Dr. X, and I'm nervous.
Me: Don't be nervous. Dr. X is highly trained, AND you actually get TWO physicians in the room. Dr. Y will be there to help!
WHICH IS TRUE. Dr. X definitely has had training. AND the attending, who will be sitting on his butt most of the day, will definitely get up out of the chair if someone's about to die, if for no other reason than to save his own license.
The worst is when the faculty scope, and it's someone bad.
Pt: Is Dr. Y any good?
Me: Dr. Y is actually one of our faculty physicians, so he is not only capable in the eyes of the board, but he's been deemed good enough to teach others, too!
WHICH IS TRUE. He IS board certified. Who deemed him good enough to teach, I don't know, but SOMEONE did.
There is actually case law about a nurse who advised a patient about getting a different doctor and was fired from her position. However, the BON of her state required her to look after her patients best interest (kind of paraphrasing here) and was able to sue and win against her employer. I will try and find the case.
There is actually case law about a nurse who advised a patient about getting a different doctor and was fired from her position. However, the BON of her state required her to look after her patients best interest (kind of paraphrasing here) and was able to sue and win against her employer. I will try and find the case.
Excellent! For the life of me I can't see how it is acceptable and required that we lie to our patients.
Excellent! For the life of me I can't see how it is acceptable and required that we lie to our patients.
The scenario in the op is they are literally being rolled off for a procedure right now and they're asking how the doctor is. You don't see how it might be better to soothe their anxiety, rather than she the horror stories? This is the kind of problem you vocalize to other employees - maybe talk to whoever is in charge of the MDs, or administration. It doesn't help the patient to scare them when they're prepped for surgery and getting wheeled in.
Eta - I present my counterpoint not as an attack or necessarily even in total disagreement, but more curiosity. I do see a grey area there.
The scenario in the op is they are literally being rolled off for a procedure right now and they're asking how the doctor is. You don't see how it might be better to soothe their anxiety, rather than she the horror stories? This is the kind of problem you vocalize to other employees - maybe talk to whoever is in charge of the MDs, or administration. It doesn't help the patient to scare them when they're prepped for surgery and getting wheeled in.
Eta - I present my counterpoint not as an attack or necessarily even in total disagreement, but more curiosity. I do see a grey area there.
I did not write that at all.
Here is what *I* wrote:
~~You know those surgeons that when their patient is on their way to OR you ask the universe to please not let the surgeon kill this one, too?
When their patient asks you, "Is my surgeon any good?" You can't tell them the truth, a floor nurse would lose her job. You can't lie, that's not right.~~
First paragraph is how *I* feel as they are on their way to OR.
Second paragraph is merely a scenario. I wrote nothing regarding where they were when they asked the question.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I had hand surgery years ago, I went to the OR nurses and asked about the surgeon I was considering. I wasn't looking for reassurance, I was looking for truth. Due to their opinion I changed doctors.
It's a shame we can't be honest with patients the way we are with one another.
Sure, if the patient is in the researching stage. You should be honest. But when they're being wheeled back to the OR?
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Second paragraph is merely a scenario. I wrote nothing regarding where they were when they asked the question.
You wrote "as they are rolling the patient to the OR" or something to that effect. I and others interpreted that to mean that the patient is asking about the surgeon as they're being wheeled to the OR.
You seem kind of hostile or argumentative in this thread. Why is that?
dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN
1,571 Posts
But how do you discern poor surgical skills from patients who are just more likely to have bad outcomes? Even the folks who design rating systems for surgeons struggle to come up with methods to untangle all the factors involved.