Psych NPs that Quit Psych

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There won't be many here, but what would you do?  What have you done? 

How many of you would leave mental health if you could maintain the same lifestyle? I have peers that wouldn't openly answer that question. 

I do have a theory on this, but it comes from my experience with undergrad. I went to a really expensive and reputable program. I graduated top of my class. I got the new grad RN program of my choice... but I was working alongside nurses that graduated from lesser programs. My student loans were 2-3x as much as theirs, but we all had the same job and pay. We all passed the NCLEX and we were all back at square one.

As my career progressed, my growth and promotions were based on my drive, professionalism, expertise and relationships with people in my organization that had the roles I wanted to achieve. Never once did it come up "what school did you go to"?

I found that my career and expertise is what I made of it. I make sure I'm up to date on EBP and practice to the top of my license. I am resourceful on my own. I make sure I fully understand the disease processes, medications and interventions that I'm working with.

THAT is what separates good nurses from lesser nurses. Not their college program. I would be just as effective in my career if I went to a "bad" school because I expect the best of myself every day. I am proud of myself for my accomplishments. The school didn't earn that for me. They got what they wanted... my tuition. I did the rest with grit and determination.

Nurses have learned over the years that nobody cares where you went to school. At least not since I became a nurse almost 20 years ago.  That is what set me on this ill-advised path for my NP Program. I didn't realize that the less desirable schools were actually not preparing their NPs. It's shocking that there are actually BAD schools, not just meh schools. It's sad. I'm not looking for a prestigious degree because I know that I can sell myself better than any grad from a snooty school.

I'm thankful for my school... but I'm PROUD of myself.

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Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
unruffled said:

I'm thankful for my school... but I'm PROUD of myself.

Kudos to you.  Part of the reason the school matters is selectivity.  It is very hard to get into a medical school, so we have some reasonable assurance that MDs are smart and hard-working.  It is hard to graduate, so we have some assurance they have a reasonable level of knowledge.  Yes, there are poor quality MDs, but as a proportion of their population, it is much lower than it is for NPs.  NP schools that admit anyone are letting in a lot of people that just should not be NPs.  It is that simple.

People like yourself that are dedicated, self-starters, intelligent, and hardworking naturally tend to gravitate towards better schools because:  1.  They have confidence they can get in.  2.  They take more pride in themselves.

I can't speak to RNs, but for NPs school does indeed matter.  Who hired most NPs?  MDs.  And if you think MDs don't care about schools, think again.  When I was looking for my first NP job back in 2017/2018, there were plenty of posts on this forum from new grad NPs that could not get a job.  I got multiple job offers.  And most of the potential employers that contacted me said flat out that they wanted to meet someone who went to Hopkins.  A name like Hopkins carries a lot of weight.  In addition, these schools also tend to have very loyal alumni who will look very favorably on a candidate from their alma mater.  In California, going to a school like UCLA means there are a huge group of medical and nursing alumni for networking.

Also, I am tired of the myth that these crappy schools are saving students money.  They are not.  They are generally much more expensive than good schools because they are preying on less intelligent people and selling them on just getting a whole bunch of loans to pay for school.  Students who go to good schools will likely get at least 1 scholarship, and there are plenty of full ride scholarships available for NP school.  Oh, but those are competitive.  There are also more states and even private philanthropists that are making med school and nursing education FREE.  Can't beat that price.  For example, New York state has made tuition for state colleges free to state residents.  Bloomberg has endowed medical schools to the extent that medical tuition is free, and so on, and in some cases, will also provide tuition assitance to nursing students.  (Hint:  he has not endowed Walden or Chamberlain).  Finally, there are plenty of job opportunities out there that will provide loan repayment options.

One of the good things about NP school is that students can continue working.  I know NPs that worked while in NP school and graduated with no debt.

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I love the point you made about MDs doing the hiring of NPs. They care about the school you attended. The nurse managers hiring the RNs don't have the same selectivity.

Two different worlds- RNs and NPs. even more reason the curriculum shouldn't be rushed or downplayed.

thanks for all your insight.

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Specializes in Psychiatry.
unruffled said:

Here is my question... what about the really great nurses that choose schools like Walden for the the convenience? I am a high level clinical quality manager with over 15 years of nursing experience, I am very well respected in my organization and profession. I am going back for my DNP in psych mental health and am considering Walden for the convenience and timeline. Otherwise I will have to wait almost a full year to start classes at the local schools and then you have to choose a full time accelerated program or a long and drawn out part time program. Walden offers something in the middle.

Are you saying that the school itself is enough to prevent you from even considering precepting someone? I have hired nurses from all types of schools over the years and you can't judge competency strictly by school. Great nurses will make the most of any program they attend. 

Am I completely off base here?

LOL no. Going to a program because it's convenient is a major red flag. You're training to be a medical provider. Physicians spend years doing pre-reqs, 4 years doing difficult school in person, and years of 80+ hour week residencies and you have NPs that think they should have equal standing but can't even be bothered to go to a real school? Because taking entrance tests or doing an interview or taking hard classes beyond discussions boards from adjunct professors is so much to ask? People from Walden and other for profits don't deserve to have equal rights to MDs, and they drag down our profession. 

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Specializes in CEN, Firefighter/Paramedic.

There is an interesting dichotomy in medical education in our country at the moment.  On one end, you have the undertaking of medical school, full of inefficiency and risk.  Starting with 4 years of intensive undergraduate requiring peak performance on classes that are mostly irrelevant to the majority of practicing physicians, intensive medical school which observationally seems like it should be extended by 1 year for the sheer volume of info now expected of medical schools.  Then there's the risk.  Had a bad day taking step 1 and got a bad score or even worse, failed your first attempt, you're basically screwed.  Irritate a clinical preceptor during their rotations, you're basically screwed.  Sure you wanted to become an anesthesiologist, but guess what, pediatrics in the middle of nowhere is your only choice now.  And with all this intense schooling, they still manage to churn out a percentage of docs who lack critical thinking and some even lack basic clinical knowledge.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have NP programs with little to no entrance requirements, self taught, nearly no energy required of the student to pass and earn licensure, and no requirements for residency.  
 

I'd love to believe that someday we can overhaul this entire system, but I think we're far too entrenched in "this is how we've always done it" to ever see a change in my lifetime.

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Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
unruffled said:

Here is my question... what about the really great nurses that choose schools like Walden for the the convenience? I am a high level clinical quality manager with over 15 years of nursing experience, I am very well respected in my organization and profession. I am going back for my DNP in psych mental health and am considering Walden for the convenience and timeline. Otherwise I will have to wait almost a full year to start classes at the local schools and then you have to choose a full time accelerated program or a long and drawn out part time program. Walden offers something in the middle.

Are you saying that the school itself is enough to prevent you from even considering precepting someone? I have hired nurses from all types of schools over the years and you can't judge competency strictly by school. Great nurses will make the most of any program they attend. 

Am I completely off base here?

I'm not a Psych NP but rather an Adult ACNP who's been in hospital-based practice since 2004. I have precepted students from a variety of schools, all respectable ones from my own Alma Mater (a state university in Michigan) to well known names (Duke, UAB, UCSF, Michigan). To me, the biggest challenge for an RN going to NP is the transition to the role of a provider. Bedside nursing is an entirely different frame of thinking and training to be Nurse Practitioner requires you to switch your brain and think as a provider including making life altering decisions that involve knowing the risks and benefits of a treatment you are prescribing and having researched the evidence behind your decisions.

That is why it is very important to go to a good program that will expose you to high level lecturers and preceptors from a network of health care facilities for clinical training. Walden asks students to find their own preceptors...that means there is no vetting of anyone that is involved in any of their clinical teaching for their students. You can practically have a friend precept you (as long as they're an NP of course).Their didactic faculty are mostly part-time and write pre-recorded lectures taking away from the dynamic nature of a classroom environment. In some instances, students are delayed because of the difficulty securing their own clinical placements. That, to me, is taking more risk than the marketing ploy of convenience they try to sell. 

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Erica Gaimari said:

Why not become a holistic psych NP? Learn about herbs, diet and lifestyle changes that contribute to mental wellness. These practitioners make a lot of money, typically don't accept insurance, and are in high demand as people learn that pharmaceuticals are not where it's at. You could also get certified in psychedelics and become a ketamine prescriber. 

How can I become a holistic psych NP?

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