With the latest killing of little Christopher in Georgia, I have really been wondering about this. This has upset me so much I can't hardly stand it.
How do you feel about providing medical care to a child molester? I know if they were a patient, we are obligated to provide the care, how would you get past your personal feelings? Just go in and do what you have to? What if they wanted to talk and you didn't want to talk to them?
This is very personal as it has happened in my own family, without a death being involved, but none the less, very, very difficult to deal with. After my sons and I going through 3 years of therapy, I still cannot get past what happened.
I've cared for several very unsavory types. Some with histories of child abuse and neglect; some with histories that are probably even worse.
Here is my philosophy. When I am taking care of these people, I concentrate on the fact that I am taking care of a HUMAN. I try to honor the humanity in that person, however little (or even possibly none) there might be. I think that, by not viewing this person as a human, I am stooping to their level. When they committed their crimes, they did not honor their victims as human; they put their own needs, wishes, anger, feelings above all else, and dishonored the human needs and rights of their victim.
Sometimes it helps me to think of this person's mother. If my child committed a horrible crime, it would break my heart on so many levels. When I take care of someone who I find thoroughly disgusting, I try to remember that somewhere they have someone who loves them, or who once did, and who is or would be horrified and heartbroken at what this person has done. It would not make me feel any better to think that my criminal-child's nurses were being mean to them, or refusing to provide care for them; it would only make me feel worse.
I don't know, I just feel like everyone deserves good health care. Even people who are completely horrible. Simply because they are human. There's that phrase that goes something like: a good judge of a society is how they treat their helpless. Usually it is in reference to their young, their old, etc. I also expand it to include their criminals, their people who are horrible (whether they have committed a legal crime or not). I am not saying I don't want these people to pay their legal debt to society; I do. I am just saying I think that they still deserve the most basics of human rights--food, clothing, air, shelter, and also competent, respectful medical care. By denying them these things, we don't negate their crimes, and it seems to me we only demean ourselves.
I'm not trying to minimize anyone else's feelings here. There are things that I am just not a "big enough" person to do; I'm human, too. There are things that I know I should do, but I can't because of my own feelings and emotions. So I make sure I don't work in areas that would put me in those situations. You know? Your head can tell you what's the professions, responsible thing to do, but sometimes your heart (or in my case, my mouth) doesn't always follow it's lead. So I just make sure I work in an environment that wouldn't put me in those situations. If you don't want to ever work with a child molester, for example, then don't work in the ER, a psych hospital, or a rehab unit. Or a nursing home (because they get old eventually). Work pediatrics, work OB, work in a plastic surgeons office, somewhere where your chances are much, much less.
Specializes in Flight, ER, Transport, ICU/Critical Care.
KellNY - you have a good point. I guess we can only HOPE that they get a GENERAL POPULATION order at sometime during their incarceration.
But, I may not agree with it - but, I do guess that issues surrounding their PROTECTION do come into play from time to time. Not FAIR - but, I know as a NATION we have executed an innocent - and I AM COMMITTED that I would rather have 1,000,000 guilty WALK than ANY innocent executed - that is the ultimate in the wrongs of social justice -but, I too am human and CHILD MOLESTERS/MURDERERS are the among the worst to deal with - IMHO.
If someone were to rape/molest/murder my loved ones, I'd bet they would (at some point) just turn themselves in - because I'm not sure they would find my "private brand of justice" as a good alternative.(But, I guess that wouldn't make me any better than they are? - not likely, but how would you ever reconcile the desire for REVENGE) I'm just not sure that I could trust that the criminal justice system - could be just. But, I pray I never have to TEST my "limits".
I know that I will NOT EVER allow ANYONE to HURT a child, elderly or animal in my presence. My husband says that when someone just "blows your head off" it will be because you get between a bad guy and a bad act. He gets annoyed and a bit scared for my safety at times (I'm no vigilante, just vigilant), but I'm not reckless - just deliberate, but DO NOT punch your kid (about 8) in the face and send him sailing into the candy rack at the supermarket with a badly lacerated lip and EXPECT that I will not do WHAT IS NECESSARY to protect that kid. (CALLED the police, filed a report and demanded social services and medical attention for the child - right then, right there!) Was it any of my business? Maybe not, but if this mom does THAT in public, right in front of me - WHAT goes on IN PRIVATE??? Scary!!!!
And I think as a society, we all have an interest in the way the fragile populations are treated. NOT the same thing as MOLESTERS or MURDERERS, but you gotta wonder if those that commit the most horrific of crimes didn't start somewhere? I wonder how many fear getting involved? I'm not implying that folks don't care - everyone has to act in a way that they are comfortable with - and in a manner that keeps them safe.
I feel blessed that I HAVE been able to INTERVENE at times.
Specializes in Medical Telemetry, LTC,AlF, Skilled care.
Simply put, the thing that MAKES us a great nation is that this is a nation of laws, not men.
As such, the criminal justice system is the ONLY place to vest punishment. Any other method, including lack of providing competent care to someone in need, is putting the man (or in this case, the nurse) in higher position than the law.
We have decided, as a nation, that there is greater danger in vesting our powers in men and not law.
That is the bottom line.
~faith,
Timothy.
While I agree with you, I also think that sometimes due to our personal experiences and trials that it's just not that black and white. Thank God, I have never had to take care of a pedophile or rapist but to be honest I don't know how I would reacte if I had to. Probably I would just go on autopilot while taking care of him/her and biting my tongue in two. Hey I'm not perfect. Please don't think I'm being argumenative with you or anyone, just giving another point of view.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I've cared for several very unsavory types. Some with histories of child abuse and neglect; some with histories that are probably even worse.
Here is my philosophy. When I am taking care of these people, I concentrate on the fact that I am taking care of a HUMAN. I try to honor the humanity in that person, however little (or even possibly none) there might be. I think that, by not viewing this person as a human, I am stooping to their level. When they committed their crimes, they did not honor their victims as human; they put their own needs, wishes, anger, feelings above all else, and dishonored the human needs and rights of their victim.
Sometimes it helps me to think of this person's mother. If my child committed a horrible crime, it would break my heart on so many levels. When I take care of someone who I find thoroughly disgusting, I try to remember that somewhere they have someone who loves them, or who once did, and who is or would be horrified and heartbroken at what this person has done. It would not make me feel any better to think that my criminal-child's nurses were being mean to them, or refusing to provide care for them; it would only make me feel worse.
I don't know, I just feel like everyone deserves good health care. Even people who are completely horrible. Simply because they are human. There's that phrase that goes something like: a good judge of a society is how they treat their helpless. Usually it is in reference to their young, their old, etc. I also expand it to include their criminals, their people who are horrible (whether they have committed a legal crime or not). I am not saying I don't want these people to pay their legal debt to society; I do. I am just saying I think that they still deserve the most basics of human rights--food, clothing, air, shelter, and also competent, respectful medical care. By denying them these things, we don't negate their crimes, and it seems to me we only demean ourselves.
I'm not trying to minimize anyone else's feelings here. There are things that I am just not a "big enough" person to do; I'm human, too. There are things that I know I should do, but I can't because of my own feelings and emotions. So I make sure I don't work in areas that would put me in those situations. You know? Your head can tell you what's the professions, responsible thing to do, but sometimes your heart (or in my case, my mouth) doesn't always follow it's lead. So I just make sure I work in an environment that wouldn't put me in those situations. If you don't want to ever work with a child molester, for example, then don't work in the ER, a psych hospital, or a rehab unit. Or a nursing home (because they get old eventually). Work pediatrics, work OB, work in a plastic surgeons office, somewhere where your chances are much, much less.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you about peds and OB. If you have trouble stomaching abuse and neglect, those are 2 places where it is going to be hard for you, because sometimes you come up against parents who for whatever reason have managed to keep their kids despite some dreadful actions.
A Mom who had a child with FAS once told me that she felt responsible. I wanted to scream at her, "ya think?!" Was this baby exposed to someone else's uterus? Because if not, then, yes, of course her FAS is your fault! Not really quite the same as the question that's being asked here, but I really would stay away from peds and OB if abusive and neglectful parents are difficult for one to deal with. Even though you don't provide direct care to them in peds, you need to be able to talk to them objectively and with respect if you're caring for their children.
I was just saying that if you didn't want to take care of child molesters, you should work someplace the child molesters usually don't seek care. While you may have victims of child molesters, abuse, etc; you won't typically be providing nursing care for child molesters if you work OB and peds.
NREMT-I hear you, BUT, just wanted to let you know, that some of these non-humans are actually given extra protection, private rooms, etc because there have been lawsuits about gaurds who turned a blind eye to violence, prisoners that were abusive not getting punished, etc. As much as you and I may disgaree with this: They still have the right to "fair" treatment, and yes-even protection while being held by the state.
So, often, they don't "get theirs", they actually get special tx. Not sure if this is in every state/area, but here it often is. (think about it-if jail was really that bad for those 'people'--why do we see them in court looking miserable but alive with no injuries?)
You are absolutely right. I used to be a C.O. before a nurse in a maximum security prison. First, high profile cases are definitely put into segregation NOT general population. Second, inmates do not go around discussing what they are incarcerated for. It is NOT like TV at all. It is considered rude to ask another inmate what he's in for. Now rumors certainly might spread and child molestors are still disliked but it's not a given anymore that prison justice will be served.
The prison population has changed over the years and the old rules don't always apply. It would be nice if they did.
As one who works with the sex offender population, I can say at work it is all about the person and their health problems. I am all business and nothing more. I dont ask their charges and why they are there, I would rather not know. My personal opinion outside of work is much different. Do I think it clouds my judgement? No. I am a professional and behave as such.
At other locations (LTC, hospital med/surg, etc) I can let loose so to speak and be friendlier, I enjoy my work and realize that in correctional environments, I have the advantage of knowing why most of them are there. With the general population, I have no idea what kinds of things they may or may not have done, but I don't dwell on that either.
Bottom line is, I really dont care what they have done in their life, at this particular moment in time they are a person with a medical need for treatment and that is what I do. I have to draw the line in the sand for me to be able to disengage from it and perfom my job to the best of my ability. This way, everyone gets my equal best, no matter what.
While I agree with you, I also think that sometimes due to our personal experiences and trials that it's just not that black and white. Thank God, I have never had to take care of a pedophile or rapist but to be honest I don't know how I would reacte if I had to. Probably I would just go on autopilot while taking care of him/her and biting my tongue in two. Hey I'm not perfect. Please don't think I'm being argumenative with you or anyone, just giving another point of view.
Not taken as argumentative at all. In fact, I agree with you that it ISN'T always so black and white. IF somebody did something like that to one of MY kids, I'd kill them, if ever given the opportunity.
Or, I'd visit the biggest lifer bubba at the prison and offer him 50 bucks in his canteen account every week. The only thing I'd ask in exchange is that he listen to my story. What he did as a result, hey, I didn't ask him to. . .
I CAN square those kinds of thoughts in my mind while still understanding that this is a nation of laws, not men. In fact, I would have a more difficult time squaring those concepts with my religion than I would with my country. However, I would probably still not lose sleep at night.
And, I can STILL care for anybody that is placed into my care, except maybe, for the person that did something to one of MY kids. . . in fact, we get prisoners to care for all the time. One of the close prisons has a high percentage of child molesters. Apparently, they segregate them that way. How I deal is that I don't ask, don't let them tell (not that they would). I don't want to know.
I don't believe in evil. I believe in sickness. And if anyone is sick, these people are -- sick in mind and spirit -- for whatever reason (genes, trauma). They need help. I'd volunteer, not refuse, to give them any care I could. Of course I'd like a big guard nearby to make sure I and the people around me (especially the children) are safe.
Personally I would have a very hard time doing taking care of a known child molester. Why? At age 8 I was repeatedly molested, and there was a kidnapping attempt. I know what this man did to me. I know how long it has taken me to "get over it". I know just how much his abuse affected me physically and physcologically.
Having said that, if it was not possible for me to switch patients or something similar, I would give competent care. I could not guarantee it would be compassionate however.
personally, i care for each patient as a human being in need of nursing care. for me, to do otherwise would be akin to pharmacists not providing patients with prescribed medications (birth control, plan b, etc,) for personal reasons. passing judgment is not my job.
queenjean
951 Posts
I've cared for several very unsavory types. Some with histories of child abuse and neglect; some with histories that are probably even worse.
Here is my philosophy. When I am taking care of these people, I concentrate on the fact that I am taking care of a HUMAN. I try to honor the humanity in that person, however little (or even possibly none) there might be. I think that, by not viewing this person as a human, I am stooping to their level. When they committed their crimes, they did not honor their victims as human; they put their own needs, wishes, anger, feelings above all else, and dishonored the human needs and rights of their victim.
Sometimes it helps me to think of this person's mother. If my child committed a horrible crime, it would break my heart on so many levels. When I take care of someone who I find thoroughly disgusting, I try to remember that somewhere they have someone who loves them, or who once did, and who is or would be horrified and heartbroken at what this person has done. It would not make me feel any better to think that my criminal-child's nurses were being mean to them, or refusing to provide care for them; it would only make me feel worse.
I don't know, I just feel like everyone deserves good health care. Even people who are completely horrible. Simply because they are human. There's that phrase that goes something like: a good judge of a society is how they treat their helpless. Usually it is in reference to their young, their old, etc. I also expand it to include their criminals, their people who are horrible (whether they have committed a legal crime or not). I am not saying I don't want these people to pay their legal debt to society; I do. I am just saying I think that they still deserve the most basics of human rights--food, clothing, air, shelter, and also competent, respectful medical care. By denying them these things, we don't negate their crimes, and it seems to me we only demean ourselves.
I'm not trying to minimize anyone else's feelings here. There are things that I am just not a "big enough" person to do; I'm human, too. There are things that I know I should do, but I can't because of my own feelings and emotions. So I make sure I don't work in areas that would put me in those situations. You know? Your head can tell you what's the professions, responsible thing to do, but sometimes your heart (or in my case, my mouth) doesn't always follow it's lead. So I just make sure I work in an environment that wouldn't put me in those situations. If you don't want to ever work with a child molester, for example, then don't work in the ER, a psych hospital, or a rehab unit. Or a nursing home (because they get old eventually). Work pediatrics, work OB, work in a plastic surgeons office, somewhere where your chances are much, much less.