Protecting the patient already died does not make any sense!

luvmy3kids · May 12, 2007

Read it carefully!
I am not talking about a partner infected with HIV....
On the other hand, a lot of couples do not stay together once the diagnosis is out....your statement is really one example for the rest of the population...
The bottom line is....we must be assuming that she does not know it....
Because assuming she knows it is a fatal mistake...
Hey guys! Nursing, besides skills, is really about common sense.

Read what carefully??? You said common sense is what tells you that this person does not know that her partner had HIV. You never said you know this for a fact... nursing and beside skills have nothing to do with it. We need to know factual information, not just something you have come to as a conclusion on your own.

You asked what people thought of not being allowed to share confidential information with his future wife, and I am questioning you how you know that she doesn't already know.

You have not stated FOR A FACT that she doesn't know. This woman could have very well known what was going on and chose to stay by her fiance. She could also very well know what is going on and be seeking medical treatment for her situation elseware... She could also know what is going on and test negative (as well as baby) for HIV and therefore needs no medical treatment at this time. Just because someone has HIV does not mean they lose their relationship. That is common sense to me.

BTW: If you are not talking about a partner infected with HIV then what are you talking about? And what do you mean be assuming she does not know it because assuming is a fatal mistake. Very confusing... Please clarify.

chuck1234 · May 12, 2007

Read what carefully??? You said common sense is what tells you that this person does not know that her partner had HIV. You never said you know this for a fact... nursing and beside skills have nothing to do with it. We need to know factual information, not just something you have come to as a conclusion on your own.
You asked what people thought of not being allowed to share confidential information with his future wife, and I am questioning you how you know that she doesn't already know.
You have not stated FOR A FACT that she doesn't know. This woman could have very well known what was going on and chose to stay by her fiance. She could also very well know what is going on and be seeking medical treatment for her situation elseware... She could also know what is going on and test negative (as well as baby) for HIV and therefore needs no medical treatment at this time. Just because someone has HIV does not mean they lose their relationship. That is common sense to me.
BTW: If you are not talking about a partner infected with HIV then what are you talking about? And what do you mean be assuming she does not know it because assuming is a fatal mistake. Very confusing... Please clarify.

Please read the whole thing!

luvmy3kids · May 12, 2007

I have read the whole thing. The point of the matter is that your patient died and was infected with HIV. His future wife is pregnant and apparently (to your knowledge) does not know of the wiser. You questioned if it makes sense that you are not allowed to tell her of his HIV status.

I want to answer it, however, I don't like to do so without all of the facts.

But, I digress.

So... If she is in fact unaware of her deceased fiances diagnosis, then no... it is not fair. Does it make sense to me... yes and no. While I respect the patient confidentiality laws in place, I don't know if this situation should uphold to that. However, it is not my place to decide this. And rightfully (and thankfully) so, as I don't know if I would like to handle all of that on my little plate.

If it were me, I would be in close contact with the physician and questioning his or her opinion on this as they are the ones who are capable of intervening in this sort of situation.

chuck1234 · May 12, 2007

Hi Luvmy3kids...

As a health care professional, we cannot assume whether the girl knows it or not...it is better to assume she does not....

This law, in this situation, does not make any sense at all...

Depending on the doctors to do it....I am not so sure....some doctors are good...some doctors....just don't care....

We spend more time with the patients than the doctors...I think we should be able to do more.

Thank you for your respond!

caliotter3 · May 12, 2007

chuck1234

Thank you for caring enough about this issue to come here to discuss it. Perhaps you can bring the matter up to your institution's ethics committee (even if anonymously) to help calm you.

kukukajoo, LPN · May 12, 2007

Obviously if the unborn child is his, he was having unprotected sex. Possibly while infected with HIV.

In New Hampshire, HIV is not a reportable disease.

BUT..... I do know of at least one case where a man was charged with attempted murder for having unprotected sex with women while he was HIV positive here in NH.

So if she truly does not know, possibly a way around the laws is to report a crime being committed- he knowingly engaged in unprotected sex while HIV positive! The police would investigate and in the ensuing investigation the woman would find out.

This is very big delimma. If the woman was exposed, she could be tested and maybe save the baby from converting to HIV positive by taking the cocktail they have available that is fairly successful in preventing transmission from mother to child.

I thope I am never in that position of do I tell or don't I as I honestly have no idea what I would do.

LydiaNN · May 12, 2007

Obviously if the unborn child is his, he was having unprotected sex. Possibly while infected with HIV.
In New Hampshire, HIV is not a reportable disease.
BUT..... I do know of at least one case where a man was charged with attempted murder for having unprotected sex with women while he was HIV positive here in NH.
So if she truly does not know, possibly a way around the laws is to report a crime being committed- he knowingly engaged in unprotected sex while HIV positive! The police would investigate and in the ensuing investigation the woman would find out.
This is very big delimma. If the woman was exposed, she could be tested and maybe save the baby from converting to HIV positive by taking the cocktail they have available that is fairly successful in preventing transmission from mother to child.
I thope I am never in that position of do I tell or don't I as I honestly have no idea what I would do.

Well, he's dead now, so the cops aren't likely to get involved.

Jolie, BSN · May 12, 2007

obviously if the unborn child is his, he was having unprotected sex. possibly while infected with hiv.
you are making a lot of assumptions here. there are plenty of babies conceived every day during protected sex.
so if she truly does not know, possibly a way around the laws is to report a crime being committed- he knowingly engaged in unprotected sex while hiv positive! the police would investigate and in the ensuing investigation the woman would find out.

another assumption. you hae no idea whether he knowingly engaged in unprotected sex while hiv(+). he may not have known he was infected with hiv at the time the baby was conceived, if the baby is, in fact even his.

another point that i would like to make is this: with the exception of apns functioning in expanded roles, it is not the job of an rn to "give" a patient or family member a diagnosis. that is a physician's responsibility. that doesn't change with the death of a patient.

Jolie, BSN · May 12, 2007

I thought that death certificates were public information? Along with birth certificates, marriage certificates, etc. People doing geneology searches, tabloid websites pulling them up on celebrities, etc...I think all you have to do is list a reason of why you are seeking it.

Yep. Death certificates are public record and can be viewed by anyone. As for obtaining a copy, that is usually limited to those who have a legitimate need, such as family members who need to close accounts, etc. or the executor of the deceased person's estate.

TraumaICURN · May 12, 2007

Common sense...
If your future husband gave you the virus...why would you go to the hospital to see him....the guy is giving you the disease which requires you to swallow a lot of pills that have a lot of side effects....making you suffering!

Chuck, I have seen women get stabbed by their husbands. The family limits visitation where he can't come to see her. But when discharged, he is the one taking her home.

CHATSDALE · May 12, 2007

writing to the state legislatures would be fine but exactly what do we write

we can't reverse hippa [federal] if we ask for permission to inform those at risk who is to determine who is at risk?

most hospitals have a form for patints to sign about whom their condition is to be discussed with, but that doesn't help if the patient, living or dead, doesn't put the othe persons name down..

some people the minute they hear something can't wait to run down the road sharing this bit of gossip with the worldif anyone has any solutions throw them in the mix

maybe we can make a difference

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 12, 2007

There are probably some mother/child laws here in Florida that would cover the MD divulging the patients HIV status to the pregnant one since there is a child involved.

There was talk making it a crime for an HIV infected person to potentially infect another person.

Surely the unborn child, or after the child is born might have some rights that would override the privacy of disclosing the HIV status. I'm too lazy to go through the laws here in Florida. So I'm mainly expressing an opinion, not a law. But children and women have laws protecting their welfare here and this might be a case of that.