I had made a post about this earlier. I would like to go into nursing, but am against abortion completely at all times, I am Catholic, and I would never ever take part in an abortion procedure, nor would i want to care for someone immediately after they had the procedure becuase without me there to do that, the abortion couldnt have happened, so in a way i am still contributing to the abortion. I will make this clear from the start, If somebody had an abortion a year prior or a month prior or whatever else of course i would still care for them. As long as i am not being responsible for that abortion happening,, I could still care for them.
Alot of people said, that is fine just don't work in the ER, OR, OB/GYN areas.. but truthfully i would like to work in all of these areas more then others.... is this possible?
Note: I do not feel that it is any of my business if my patient had an abortion in the past and i would never treat anybody differently becuase they had one in the past. I just need to know that when i sleep at night I am doing the right thing and not going against my beliefs and I think that i deserve those rights..
Thanks for your input! i would love to hear from other pro life nurses most of all and any experiences you have had with this
I have to admit, I've skipped about seven pages, but I think it is possible to be a good nurse and stay consistent with your beliefs, but that it would be prudent to avoid those areas where conflict is likely. I also think that if you become a nurse, you should recognize that there might be a rare case in which it might not be possible to follow your own conscience. It's hard to imagine a case involving abortion where this would occur. Maybe a "morning after pill." Plan B is contaception, so maybe that's not an issue, but it could come up at a facility that uses the abortion pill (RU 236? or something like that). And perhaps your conscience would not object to an emergency D&C to save the life of the mother (rare, but possible). As far as meds, if another nurse isn't available, or willing, the prescribing physician is also able to administer them.
Still, I think it's important to examine the hypothetical situation in which your duty to a patient could conflict with your duty to God. I don't work in an ICU, but I've been in situations that come pretty close to "pulling the plug." I have refused to increase a morphine drip on a patient with no signs of discomfort--my duty as a nurse and to God coincided nicely. I have increased a drip knowing it might shorten life, in order to relieve discomfort (usually, respiratory distress rather than obvious pain.) That's ethical as a nurse, and my understanding of God does not preclude it. But, even though I don't think it is an offense against God, stopping measures that are sustaining life (oxygen, food, fluids) is a tough thing to do. I've had to rely on the advice of more experienced nurses, including some on these boards, that the time can come when it is the right thing to do.
So I think one has to consider whether one's God is willing to accept, or at least forgive, putting your patient first. You know, there are some for whom working on the Sabbath is strictly forbidden. Most Christians can justify it on the parable of the sheppard and the lost sheep, but some may not, and not all nurses are Christians. If working a weekend shift is going to jeopardize your soul, then your choices in nursing are very limited.
I think it's prudent of the OP to be thinking about these problems before becoming a nurse.
I must beg to differ, with all respect to your statements.
Any religion, Catholic, the many Protestant denominations, the various Jewish denominations, and any other religion you choose must have some basic, fundamental beliefs or it's not really a religion. What individuals do with the religion as a whole certainly varies but I do not comprehend how one can say "I am a ________" if one does not accept the basic views and tenets of that religion.
For this very reason, I find it difficult to call myself a Christian. I definitely read the Bible like the menu in a Chinese restaurant, picking and chosing my doctrine and even inventing some, at times. I was raised Fundamentalist, so this doesn't come easily to me. I can stretch "Let the be light," to fit the Big Bang, but the rest of the Book of Genesis is pretty much out, for me. More troubling than the parts that are scientifically impossible are the parts that seem, to me, morally wrong. I don't believe God ordered genocide against the Canaanites, for example. I'm skeptical about a lot of things, and I tend to live my life somewhere between a Taoist and a Deist. I'm rarely closer to God than when I'm birdwatching, and I tend to avoid trying to live life against the grain. Still, when I pray, I'm praying to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I usually say, "Lord," but that's what I mean. On some level, I simply can't believe in an impersonal god, or the universe, or whatever.
I'm like a Buddhist, lighting incense and praying for his crop. Ironic or not, it feels right, and ultimately, I guess I think my relationship with God is far more important than my religion.
i personally am not a big fan of acronyms, but i do always ask myself "wwGw- what would God want?" in terms of pt interventions.
i too mike, have totally refused to bolus more dilaudid when pt is comfortable...
and have eagerly titrated to max amt when suffering still exists.
every decision i make, always revolves around what God would want.
i couldn't make ethical decisions, otherwise.:)
leslie
Rational mike is a bit of a secular humanist who has real problems with the idea that ethics can't exist independently of God. Nursemike is a porridge of many ideas who ultimately ends up doing much the same as you.
It's hard--really hard--to watch someone, even a stranger, die, strictly through the eyes of reason. Part of my agnosticism--part of why I can't seem to find any label that quite fits, is that I have always thought matters of the spirit are central to my life. Nursing has only intensified that. The more I think, the less I understand, so I guess I have to go with what I feel, and "What would God want?" kinda sums it up.
I guess you're right. This is a bit off-topic. Sorta. But a nurse who was resolutely "pro-choice" (or whatever one wants to call it) would still be likely to encounter similar dilemmas.
I cared for a dying young man whom, if I had read his story in the newspaper, I might have thought deserved it.
His family didn't deserve it. And while it can't be denied that he brought it on himself, I couldn't feel that he deserved it, either. Nor can I imagine God thought he deserved it. So, science to the rescue: it wasn't God who killed him, it was physiology. Could God have overruled physiology? I may never know. But I have to think, because it's what I feel, that God's mercy was to let him free of this world, and to put me there to titrate the morphine as best I knew how.
If, as I must admit is possible, God didn't call me to be a nurse, then it must have been my idea. So I have to believe God called me, because I cannot accept that I would have done this to myself. Nor, I think, is it a coincidence that the times that try our souls are the times we most feel we are doing God's work. So I guess that means I can't call off, tonight.
I just have a quick question. I know earlier you posted about your beliefs with BC and then someone commented on BC when it is used for someone with heavy menstrual cramps or even ovarian cysts. Would you be able to administer this medication to someone who is using it for this reason? For example, I have an IUD because I cannot tolerate any other form of BC. I am 22 and married. But what if I was 13 and had horrible periods and couldn't tolerate other forms of BC ( I know this is rare) and a doctor gave that pt an IUD. What if you have a pt who comes in for something completely unrelated but then mentions they want to get put on BC and they are a HS student using it only for pregnancy prevention? You would have to refuse administering meds to the pt you have already agreed to care for. I think it's very hard to set yourself up for that kind of situation. Every time you have an admission you are going to think in the back of your head "oh can I take this pt or are they here for something that is against my beliefs?" I would very carefully consider your departmental choices. Is it possible to work in these with your conditions? Absolutely. However, could you possibly put a burden on another nurse? Absolutely. I respect your honestly on the situation I just caution you that you could make your life very hard on yourself. I would hate for you to become a nurse and never find a nurse manager in any of the chosen departments that will respect your wishes. That may be rare but it is also possible. Either way I hope you find peace with your decision. :redbeathe
OK, I work for Alberta Health Services which would ultimately employ the OP is she ever made it through nursing school.
To put it simply she will have a hard time getting hired if she applied to the Women's Health Program. They have a wonderful interview that basically weeds out people.
Nurses aren't "FORCED" to participate in procedures that go against their personal beliefs. I know nurses that refused to assist in infant circumcision and were never disciplined. I've met nurses that have refused compassionate care patients because they don't agree with the morphine dosages to be administered to the suffering.
Like another poster, I've cared for chid molesters, rapists from the local prision, "working" girls, pimps, and addicts. I've done it because "there by the grace of God go I" and I'm not even particularly religious.
I'd say she'd be better off looking for another health related profession, where direct patient care isn't an option. Patients don't need to be cared for someone who is judgmental. We are all judgmental to a degree and can moan in the med room about patients but I truly believe that the OPs viewpoint would come across in the ER or a Womens Program
Abortions/terminations aren't decided upon lighty by the vast majority of women who choose them. They need careful and compassionate care providers and I know that the facility I work for would never hire her for the Women's Program.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
It seems like this topic went from you not wanting to participate in abortions (which I can understand and support) to you not wanting to participate in abortions or maybe administer birth control to someone you think is to young, it's not about you not believing in birth control because you use it yourself, it's that you are judging that person and are refusing to care for them based on those judgments.
In your original argument it seemed as though it wasn't about you judging the person but that you didn't want to assist in a procedure you feel is unethical to your beliefs and that would make you a co guilty party in other words. Again I can support that. I am sure their are MANY correction officers that maybe enjoy their work and what they do but they don't want to be the one to flip the switch when it comes to putting someone to death. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be a a correctional officer or can't be a good one.
This isn't the case though with the teenager on birth control though, now this isn't about you assisting in a "murder", it is you deciding who is worthy of your care and who isn't.
Excuse me, if i ever made it through nursing school? Are you implying that I am stupid and can not do it? I am in my fifth year of a concurrent degree. I have gotten As and Bs across the board each year and have had to take 7 courses a term because it is 6 years of school put into five. I have worked extremely hard and am definately NOT a stupid person...thank you
Why would you work so hard for 5 years to get a degree and not do anything with it or change before you even tried on the first career? Also why the big debate over something you haven't even gotten close to achieving yet?
I work in orthopedics. When our census is low we take m/s patients. I have cared for a septic failed chemical abortion patient on my unit before. I don't believe it is my place to have any opinion whatsoever on the choices she made, at least not when I am at work. My job was to give her compassionate and safe care and that's exactly what I did. At least thats how I feel about it. I think when nurses are judgemental in any way about their patients, it has a severe impact on the care they give, whether it is conscious or not.
I just have a quick question. I know earlier you posted about your beliefs with BC and then someone commented on BC when it is used for someone with heavy menstrual cramps or even ovarian cysts. Would you be able to administer this medication to someone who is using it for this reason? For example, I have an IUD because I cannot tolerate any other form of BC. I am 22 and married. But what if I was 13 and had horrible periods and couldn't tolerate other forms of BC ( I know this is rare) and a doctor gave that pt an IUD. What if you have a pt who comes in for something completely unrelated but then mentions they want to get put on BC and they are a HS student using it only for pregnancy prevention? You would have to refuse administering meds to the pt you have already agreed to care for. I think it's very hard to set yourself up for that kind of situation. Every time you have an admission you are going to think in the back of your head "oh can I take this pt or are they here for something that is against my beliefs?" I would very carefully consider your departmental choices. Is it possible to work in these with your conditions? Absolutely. However, could you possibly put a burden on another nurse? Absolutely. I respect your honestly on the situation I just caution you that you could make your life very hard on yourself. I would hate for you to become a nurse and never find a nurse manager in any of the chosen departments that will respect your wishes. That may be rare but it is also possible. Either way I hope you find peace with your decision. :redbeathe
I have no idea why any doc would presribe you an IUD, I though it was a contradiction for a childless,young women do to possibility of infertility,infection etc..
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nursemike, ASN, RN
1 Article; 2,362 Posts
I have to admit, I've skipped about seven pages, but I think it is possible to be a good nurse and stay consistent with your beliefs, but that it would be prudent to avoid those areas where conflict is likely. I also think that if you become a nurse, you should recognize that there might be a rare case in which it might not be possible to follow your own conscience. It's hard to imagine a case involving abortion where this would occur. Maybe a "morning after pill." Plan B is contaception, so maybe that's not an issue, but it could come up at a facility that uses the abortion pill (RU 236? or something like that). And perhaps your conscience would not object to an emergency D&C to save the life of the mother (rare, but possible). As far as meds, if another nurse isn't available, or willing, the prescribing physician is also able to administer them.
Still, I think it's important to examine the hypothetical situation in which your duty to a patient could conflict with your duty to God. I don't work in an ICU, but I've been in situations that come pretty close to "pulling the plug." I have refused to increase a morphine drip on a patient with no signs of discomfort--my duty as a nurse and to God coincided nicely. I have increased a drip knowing it might shorten life, in order to relieve discomfort (usually, respiratory distress rather than obvious pain.) That's ethical as a nurse, and my understanding of God does not preclude it. But, even though I don't think it is an offense against God, stopping measures that are sustaining life (oxygen, food, fluids) is a tough thing to do. I've had to rely on the advice of more experienced nurses, including some on these boards, that the time can come when it is the right thing to do.
So I think one has to consider whether one's God is willing to accept, or at least forgive, putting your patient first. You know, there are some for whom working on the Sabbath is strictly forbidden. Most Christians can justify it on the parable of the sheppard and the lost sheep, but some may not, and not all nurses are Christians. If working a weekend shift is going to jeopardize your soul, then your choices in nursing are very limited.
I think it's prudent of the OP to be thinking about these problems before becoming a nurse.