I am feeling very conflicted about making a decision in the near future about this, and I would appreciate reliable and honest advice. I am finishing a very difficult 5 year degree, and have wanted a job in healthcare for a long time. I still want to pursue a career part time in what i am studying, which is to be a band and music teacher, and am considering going to nursing school part time during the year and taking summer courses while i teach. I think nursing would be a very rewarding profession, and I think that I would be very happy to be a nurse. I do feel a calling toward a job in the medical field, and I am still young, I am 23 years old, and I feel that if I am going to devote so much more energy, time, and money into a second career I need to decide now.
With everything going on in the United States ( I live in Canada), I am extremely concerned about whether I would actually be able to work as a nurse by the time I graduate or not. I am unapollogetically pro-life, and would never have anything to do with abortion whatsoever. This to me even includes post abortion care. How much trouble will I have? It seems that every hospital that is not a Catholic hospital runs into this situation. I have friends in nursing that tell me that you would jsut work in a different branch of the hospital but then I hear stories about nurses still having to walk away from certain situations having to do with abortion. I would actually really like to work in Cosmetic surgery, but I am not sure how the job market is out there for that. I feel something telling me I should go ahead with it because this is something that I feel I really may be meant to do in my life,, but I will NOT participate in anything to do with abortion ever. My husband has a good career here in Canada, so the chacnes of us moving to another country are slimto none until retirement,
I do not want to start up a debate, I am just an exhausted student who is trying to make a really big decision and is increadibly overwhelmed at what i should do. I really appreciate your responses!
So basically you have to be willing to participate in abortions to be a nurse? A good friend of mine is in nursing, almost finished and she said it has never been an issue or even been brought up whatsoever, and she is pro life and does not seem to be worried at all
Have you been following this thread?
In addition, what do you consider an "abortion?" For example, a ruptured ectopic does require removal of a dead fetus among other things. (Yes, I say fetus because I believe life begins at point of conception, debatable I know.) If you are opposed to "abortion" even in cases where it is needed to save the mother, then you may have difficulty working in a hospital that does not perform "abortions." However, elective abortions to terminate an unwanted pregnancy are typically performed in specialty areas and clinics, therefore many hospitals exist that do not perform these elective abortions.
Edit: I may be off base here; however, it does seem that the OP stated they would not even be involved in a life saving procedure. At least I assume that was in response to a person who asked about the ectopic scenario.
I am pro life to the point where you may have to consider taking a life to save a life. In a situation like this, I see it as self defense and an act to essentially save somebody who is being killed by their pregnancy. I do not like it; however, I have been in a few situations where my life was on the line and I was prepared to act against my nature in order to survive. Hypocrisy, perhaps.
So basically you have to be willing to participate in abortions to be a nurse? A good friend of mine is in nursing, almost finished and she said it has never been an issue or even been brought up whatsoever, and she is pro life and does not seem to be worried at all
Absolutely there are areas of nursing where this is a non-issue. Consider geriatrics/long term care, subacute or rehab, burn units, orthopaedics, cardiac/telemetry or a step-down unit. There are LOTS of areas. Home care would be another option.
Smaller hospitals med/surg may also be an option, but it's not 100%.
Judging people is different from judging an action, and the OP is talking about the latter. Are you out there, OP? You know somewhere between a quarter and a third of women will have had an abortion by the end of their reproductive years. They aren't aberrations.
There are countries where clitoridectomies are done in hospitals - it's safer than doing it in a hut or apartment, right? But I sure hope nurses there can stand up and say "No, this is wrong."
First, at least one American medical group actually advocated doing clitoridectomies legally here in the USA, to reduce infection/pain by them being done at home. Several European medical groups have also discussed this also.
Second, to the OP, there are many pts that have had abortions, that do not tell their MDs about them. And unless, it is their regular MD/OB/Gyn, (few of which do abortions), unless they tell you or the MD, it will not be noted in the history. I know plenty of women that have had procedures that they do not discuss with their MDS, from abortions, treatment for depression, to cosmetic surgery.
Thus, while I may look at my patients histories, I have rarily if ever seen either cosmetic procedures or abortions listed on an H&P, yet have seen enough diagnostics and know enough stats to know that I have taken care of many pts that have had these procedures. It is hard to disguise fake boobs from an MRI. And I have had plenty of poor pts that have come in for D&Cs, for "bleeding" and infection and "incomplete" miscarriages where there is not definitive but some probable evidence that it was induced...while some are not from ABs, some invariably are.
I am prochoice, and part of my choice is that I do not work directly with abortions. But I can pretty well guarantee that I have worked with pts who have had them....it may not have necessarily been listed or admitted to. And if one works in hospital, chances are high that they will be among your "medical" pts. You just will not know it.
For those that are pro-life for religious beliefs and claim that they can not care for a women getting or have had an abortion for those religious/biblical reasons I find it a bit hypocritical. Sorry to quote scripture here but the bible also says. "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you".
I am Christian and pro-life for myself; but what another woman does is her business and not mine to use to determine her character or whether or not she is "worthy of my nursing care", I won't even think of her differently. If anything I have deep empathy for her; in my experience abortions are not made lightly and most often have drastic reasons for them (I had a friend that had an abortion after being rapped at gun point). I have another friend that had two abortions (neither of which were made hastily) I did not feel it was my job to judge her on this and she is still a very good friend of mine today.
If you do not want to have an abortion because you are pro-life, then awesome, don't have one...but for some one else...its not your right to judge them, and that includes refusing to take care of a post-abortion complication (there are enough places that you can work to avoid being involved in participating in them). (IMO) ...pray for the unborn babies, pray that women do not get stuck in situations that lead them to make the hardest decision of their lives. Nursing has not place for people that judge.
How can someone be "pro life" if they only choose the lives they are "pro"?? Taking care of a woman admitted with complications of abortion does not mean you agree with her decision. It means you're pro life - your patient's life.
This is just an observation and OT, but I see too much of myself in this post and your first post (except that I am not against abortion), so I feel like putting it out there. I go with one idea with lots of excitement and fervor and take college classes, buy books online and at bookstores, spend hours online researching my ideas and new topic, and do this incredible hyperfocusing for hours on end without stopping to eat or do things I need to do. Then when I get to just about the finish line, I change directions completely and do the same thing over again with another topic or idea, with much energy and excitement. It only takes one little seed (like your surgery was maybe a seed for you, because it certainly could have been for me had I been in your situation) to send me on one of these tangents. Can you guess what I have?
I work for a veterans hospital for the very sane and simple reason that I feel more comfortable caring for men.
I never had any interest in OB/L&D. (2 words describe my ns career "I passed") Personally I am pro-choice but my views aren't important. Advocacy and care for my patient is my first priority.
I am deeply impressed by the respect and dignity shown for each other by the postings from opposite sides on this thread.
Well, I would like this thread to be closed now if that is possible. I do not knwo how many more times i have to state, that YES i would care for a person suffering from a post abortion complication, and yes i would care for someone who has had an abortion in the past, but NO i would not take part in the procedure. I do not know why people want to argue with me about that, i never said any of those things, it seems to me like there is quite a bit of judgement being passed on myself and i am not appreciating it
Well, I would like this thread to be closed now if that is possible. I do not knwo how many more times i have to state, that YES i would care for a person suffering from a post abortion complication, and yes i would care for someone who has had an abortion in the past, but NO i would not take part in the procedure. I do not know why people want to argue with me about that, i never said any of those things, it seems to me like there is quite a bit of judgement being passed on myself and i am not appreciating it
Problem being, your stance is still a bit vague. Again, what do you consider an "abortion?" Would you be involved in a ruptured ectopic case for example? However, at the end of the day it is academic, as there are many areas of nursing where this would be a non issue.
In addition, we keep discussing, because just a few posts ago you stated you thought dealing with abortions would be unavoidable as a nurse. That statement seemed to indicate you are in fact having difficulties with your potential role as a nurse in spite stating otherwise in other posts.
Just worried about the conscience clause being done away with, that is pretty much it. As long as people have that, i would never worry. Hopefully we will always have that
Well, this was a very interesting thread. I actually wondered myself about this topic. I am obviously pro-life, but I would not pass judgement on anyone. You have no idea what their exact situation is. If they were raped, they did not consent to the sexual act in the first place. I do not agree with abortion for myself, but for someone else it's none of my business. I am not God, so I have no right to judge anyone. Would I refuse someone care? Absolutely not! I also wouldn't want to ruffle any feathers either. Seriously, you've heard the saying the nurses will eat their own...what do you think would happen once they know you pick and choose your asignments? Yes, it is legal to refuse based on ethical, moral beliefs, but that doesn't mean the charge nurse won't give you the worst assignments and attitude. Also, in nursing school some professors have been known to come after you if you ruffle their feathers. Not all, but some. I am not saying you should compromise your beliefs, but maybe nursing just isn't your forte. Just because it's impossible to say whether or not you might come across this situation in some way, shape, or form. I would say that you are still young and should pursue the band teacher route since you have wanted to do this for so long. Maybe, you could volunteer just to see if you really are as interested as you think you are. Nursing school is expensive and not for the lighthearted. It is a big decision. Basically, while in nursing school don't expect to have any kind of social life at all. Plan to eat and breathe studying for at least 2 years and more for the BSN or MSN. You could try CNA or LPN, they can run for up to a year and some have part-time options. If you like the school atmosphere, an LPN can be a school nurse. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in my . I am in no way judging you, but I thought I'd offer some options you may not have considered. Good Luck in whatever you choose to do!
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. I am in no way judging you, but I thought I'd offer some options you may not have considered. Good Luck in whatever you choose to do!
GilaRRT
1,905 Posts
Have you been following this thread?
In addition, what do you consider an "abortion?" For example, a ruptured ectopic does require removal of a dead fetus among other things. (Yes, I say fetus because I believe life begins at point of conception, debatable I know.) If you are opposed to "abortion" even in cases where it is needed to save the mother, then you may have difficulty working in a hospital that does not perform "abortions." However, elective abortions to terminate an unwanted pregnancy are typically performed in specialty areas and clinics, therefore many hospitals exist that do not perform these elective abortions.
Edit: I may be off base here; however, it does seem that the OP stated they would not even be involved in a life saving procedure. At least I assume that was in response to a person who asked about the ectopic scenario.
I am pro life to the point where you may have to consider taking a life to save a life. In a situation like this, I see it as self defense and an act to essentially save somebody who is being killed by their pregnancy. I do not like it; however, I have been in a few situations where my life was on the line and I was prepared to act against my nature in order to survive. Hypocrisy, perhaps.