President Biden thread

subee said:

If the Democrats had played it smarter, they would have promoted themselves (and behaved accordingly) as the moderate party since we would then only have one.  And every single Democrat should have gotten the memo.  The point is to win and they forgot that.  The gave the word "progressive" a slant it didn't deserve.  

People are saying that. Maybe.  But with their failures at the border and with inflation they didn't have a good stance moderate stance, so focusing on progressive issues seemed important.  Republicans somehow flipped to be the party of the working class.  They don't care about women or trans or progressive issues.  This happened long before Harris.

Crusades said:

Fair enough. 

The cats and dogs was a thing that came up at a town council meeting then went viral. Trump stupidity repeated it . He nor Vance made it up out of thin air. I cringed when Trump said it. I wish he didn't. Of course Vance ran cover. 

In my opinion referencing Hitler and Nazis crosses the line. And are we going to pretend that it was suggested on left msm and even in this very forum that support for Trump was  support for Nazis?  Yes. Trump went after other politicians and political media but he didn't slander the everyday democrat voter. People were listening and voted accordingly.  To me it's pot meet mass Nazi crematorium. Both black with soot but one far more sinister. 

It's a sore spot for me sure. And yes I'm thrilled with the outcome of the election. However playing on the deaths of millions of people to gain power is a special type of evil. It worked in 2020 I guess until it didn't anymore. 

I'm happy that some democrats are reflecting on this. But I'm not convinced they are considering they did anything wrong per say but wish they did something different. Not forecasting what the implication it truly is. 

That's it. I'll try to stop harping now. 

And denying Democray should have crossed a line.  I guess we can define our goal posts.

Tweety said:

People are saying that. Maybe.  But with their failures at the border and with inflation they didn't have a good stance moderate stance, so focusing on progressive issues seemed important.  Republicans somehow flipped to be the party of the working class.  They don't care about women or trans or progressive issues.  This happened long before Harris.

I disagree that Republicans do not care about women or trans issues. I'll agree they are not interested in extreem progressive issues. Examples are calling women " birthing person" " people with uterus' " and "men can menstruate and have babies". "Chest feeding...." etc. 

Most Republicans agree a woman has a right to abortion but with limits and for the safety of the mother/rape/incest. Similar to Trump's stance. 

Most do not have personal issues with trans. Other than in women intimate spaces and in contact sports where a female could be severely injured by the inherent muscular structures of a male at birth and post puberty.  Or at an extreem advantage in a sport . Most don't care what medical intervention one chooses to partake when they are adults. Parents want to be the sole providers of education around sex and gender issues and also have a choice in what is taught to their children.  

Of course there's the loud radical Bible thumpers. However I would say most Republicans care but in a different way. 

I stand corrected and "doesn't care" was a bit too strong.  Let's say rural working class America that was once a Democrat strong hold has other concerns that Democrats lost site of the last decade or so.  Abortion, equality and even the environment are not top concerns of the working class.  Somehow they identify with billionaire Trump instead who understands them more.  Somehow they are okay with Gaetz and not a trans congressperson.

We've had many discussions about such issues but that wasn't my point.  

Tweety said:

I stand corrected and "doesn't care" was a bit too strong.  Let's say rural working class America that was once a Democrat strong hold has other concerns that Democrats lost site of the last decade or so.  Abortion, equality and even the environment are not top concerns of the working class.  Somehow they identify with billionaire Trump instead who understands them more.  Somehow they are okay with Gaetz and not a trans congressperson.

We've had many discussions about such issues but that wasn't my point.  

I don't like Gaetz. I'll have to see what is  Trump's rational is for that one. 

I think that they prefer who they think is the best person to do the job. What gender they are is irrelevant.  As well as race or sexually.  Trans may be less prevalent because they make up less of the population. However I'm hard pressed to believe the job requirement is "cis man". 

Crusades said:

I don't like Gaetz. I'll have to see what is  Trump's rational is for that one. 

I think that they prefer who they think is the best person to do the job. What gender they are is irrelevant.  As well as race or sexually.  Trans may be less prevalent because they make up less of the population. However I'm hard pressed to believe the job requirement is "cis man". 

Agree.  Rural America are okay with women and other races as politicians and they elect them.  Think Marjorie Taylor Greene.  By "equality" issues, I was taking more about thier rejection of trans people and not wanting to hear they/them (think DeSantis and his wanting to ban those terms), and the inconvenience of hearing "birthing person"). Think Kid Rock shooting a Bud Lught can and that boycott over them sponsoring a trans influencer.

I understand their feelings that it went too far.  Beerman spit out people's rejection of identity politics and wokism.  

Again the point is not to discuss those issues as we've been there and done that, but that rural America in my lifetime turned Red and that's one of the main reasons Trump won the election and the popular vote.

Tweety said:

Agree.  Rural America are okay with women and other races as politicians and they elect them.  Think Marjorie Taylor Greene.  By "equality" issues, I was taking more about thier rejection of trans people and not wanting to hear they/them (think DeSantis and his wanting to ban those terms), and the inconvenience of hearing "birthing person"). Think Kid Rock shooting a Bud Lught can and that boycott over them sponsoring a trans influencer.

I understand their feelings that it went too far.  Beerman spit out people's rejection of identity politics and wokism.  

Again the point is not to discuss those issues as we've been there and done that, but that rural America in my lifetime turned Red and that's one of the main reasons Trump won the election and the popular vote.

 

All true. I think compelled speech bothers people. Banning pronouns is a little much. If people want to say pronouns they should be able o. If they do not, use the person name instead. 

I'm a woman. I have had 4 children. I am nor a "birthing person" , I am a woman. And regardless of what you transition to, even if you say you are a man, it is your female reproductive organs that allowed one to to give birth. 

I think "woke" was a well intentioned idea that was overtaken by radicals. Who seem to be the loudest but really do not represent the majority of democrats. I think "woke" has caused some democrats politicians to either go full woke or not speak up to what they really believe for fear of backlash from the radicals. Who although a minority, can cause havoc on one's career if they target you.

Well there was a reason he won and I think the radical woke took a peice of that cake. 

Crusades said:

Well there was a reason he won and I think the radical woke took a peice of that cake. 

It did and there were a lot of pieces of that cake.

Just curious has anyone called you a "birthing person" or are you generally considered a mother?

I think the right blew it up to weaponsize it.  I heard "birthing person" said once.  But the right went nuts.

I think a trans man with a uterus that decides to have a child, out of respect for him, I would use birthing person.  I only knew of one person in this situation years ago and he described himself as the child's parent.  I didn't get bent out of shape about it.  But I call cis females mothers.

Anyway, I don't mind being called woke.  It's not an insult to me.

I've more often heard "sperm donor" to refer to a father and no one seems to care.

Anyway to follow up.  The transgendered man I mentioned above was harrased and even made the National Enquirer. This was before the internet  But also had some mental illness and committed suicide.  His daughter was raised by her natural father, a gay man who was a good friend of mine.  They had a close relationship.  She became a model and a mother and has a good healthy life.  My friend who shared my birthday died a few years ago of heart disease.

Tweety said:

I've more often heard "sperm donor" to refer to a father and no one seems to care.

Anyway to follow up.  The transgendered man I mentioned above was harrased and even made the National Enquirer. This was before the internet  But also had some mental illness and committed suicide.  His daughter was raised by her natural father, a gay man who was a good friend of mine.  They had a close relationship.  She became a model and a mother and has a good healthy life.  My friend who shared my birthday died a few years ago of heart disease.

I'm sorry for your friend. Nobody should be harrassed . I think there has been some progress that silences the pure bigots. Always can be more progress.  

Sperm donor is often in reference to men who make their deposit then leave. Or do not fulfill the duties of a father. I do not think they identify as "sperms doners" nor is it part if progressive terminology. 

I was called a "birthing person" in which I corrected the person immediately by advising I identify as a pregnant woman. It seemed to resonate as they did not refer to me as "birthing person" there after. I did not need to insult or deny anyone's identity. I just clarified mine. 

I had a lactation specialist embarrassingly ask me if I wanted the process of breast feeding referred to as "chest feeding". To her relief I advised that I have breast that are lactating so it is breast feeding. 

It is interesting tho. The progressive names seem to be in relation to women and their unique characteristics that set them aside from men. I could see how some feminist may take offense to this. I've never heard "person with testicles" before. 

I also wonder why it's mostly transwomen wanting to use restrooms/locker rooms? Or transwomen insisting on playing women's sports? Nevermind.  I'm sure no one wants to go down that rabbit hole! LOL. 

Crusades said:

 

I also wonder why it's mostly transwomen wanting to use restrooms/locker rooms? Or transwomen insisting on playing women's sports? Nevermind.  I'm sure no one wants to go down that rabbit hole! LOL. 

 

It's trans women that get all the negative publicity and seem to bother the press and religious people the most.  Trans men use men's rooms and want to be in the military and participate as men as much as trans women do.

But who knows.  Lesbians in the 90s were chic and in vogue but gay men were reviled. 

But know let's not go down that rabbit hole. 🤣

Crusades said:

 

I also wonder why it's mostly transwomen wanting to use restrooms/locker rooms? Or transwomen insisting on playing women's sports?  LOL. 

 

I am not sure what you are asking here. Are you saying that transwomen need to use the restroom or belong to sports clubs more than cis women? Or that right-leaning media and politicians put more emphasis on it? 

Statistically, more transgender people identify as female than male. I can totally understand why someone who has undergone feminization procedures would feel unsafe in a mens restroom and locker room. 

If you loved a sport as a child, it doesn't seem unusual to want to continue.