Prepare Nurses to Pass NCLEX, or Prepare Nurses for Real World?

[Hoosier_RN]

On 7/28/2020 at 5:42 PM, KatieMI said:

I do not know how schools nowadays let out nurses who literally do not know ABCDs of pathology and pharma and how these nurses successfully pass NCLEX in droves and get employed without having the slightest idea of what they are playing with.

Oh, bother....

Schools teach to the NCLEX because of the all important pass rates needed to stay in business. Students don't get the same education that I got 30ish years ago, that taught me to learn in depth and develop the critical thinking skills needed to adequately care for patients once I left school and got my license. Nowadays, they depend on facilities to fill in the blanks, which is proving to be detrimental to nurses, as well as patients. Not all residencies are good, and not all new nurses get the training and support that they need. I don’t blame nursing instructors, per se, they are hired to teach a class by the model the school wishes. I blame the schools that take these students money and leave many of them grossly under prepared.

[guest1008832]

On August 7, 2020 I took the NCLEX for the second time and FAILED. I paid $70.00 to the NCSBN for a 5-wk study course, including test questions. I used UWorld and other resources such as Sanders and NCLEX cram study guides. NOTHING...NOTHING I reviewed assisted me with the NCLEX exam several days ago and I believe I did worse the second time than I did the first time! The computer shut off prior to even reaching the 60 question mark. I've worked as a Paramedic for 25-years. I have a legal education also and I served in the U.S. Army for 23-years as a Medical Specialist (68W) and as a Medical Logistics NCO (68J). I have the ability to practice with a host of medications as a Paramedic, start IV's, initiate IO's, Intubate, stellar knowledge of PALS & ACLS. I can perform cricothyroidotomies and needle chest decompressions ALL WITHOUT NEEDING AN ORDER from some doctor. I graduated top 3 of my nursing class and passed all of the required exit HESI exams. I receive a clinical excellence award from my education center for best clinical student. However, this HAZING process of trying to pass this NCLEX exam is going to stop! Nursing school has taught me one thing...to advocate for others and that's exactly what I'm going to do! Basically, by failing the NCLEX, you're telling me I'm not good enough to be a nurse, but I'm good enough to be a Paramedic and save your life if you call 9-1-1.

[londonflo]

Please do not believe that the message is you're not good enough to be a nurse. Rather the NCLEX is trying to measure the learning you have acquired in your educational program. As you have found out the test consists of several types of questions and difficulty increases when you choose the right answer. You have an excellent school rank (top 3) and a clinical award. Congratulations on your academic and clinical achievements!

Did you receive a print out that described what areas to focus on to improve your test scores? Perhaps you had a faculty member you felt close to who can help you develop a study plan that will guarantee your success at your next testing date. I wish you the best of luck as your navigate the last hurdle in your path to achieve the honor of adding RN to your already considerable credentials.

[guest1008832]

Dear Londonflo,

I did receive the testing feedback from the NCSBN on my NCLEX failure performance. WOW!, it was stellar, I did worse than I did the first time...even after using the NCSBN's learning exams / 5-week study material. That was 5-weeks wasted!

Effective today, I filed notice to the NCSBN in Chicago, IL they have been issued a "Writ of Summons" pertaining to my efforts to bring a "Class Action" lawsuit against the testing methodology. ANY existing Graduate Nurse or existing Nurse who failed the NCLEX 2 or more times will be allowed to enter the action as a "Class Member" and receive compensation.

I'm no longer going to tolerate this behavior when we need nurses on the front lines. Nursing students who go through vigorous schooling following by peer precepting when they get hired. If your an unsafe nurse, THAT is the time to correct the actions while you are working with an experienced nurse. That way...YOU LEARN from your mistakes. I fail a test and learn nothing!

In Pennsylvania, we have RN programs consisting of diploma programs, Associate Degree Programs (ADN/ASN) and BSN programs. All of which you can complete PRIOR to sitting for the NCLEX. However, all of these program students sit for the SAME NCLEX test. Someone with a BSN is more at an advantage than someone with a ADN/ASN degree vs a diploma certificate. How is this form of NCLEX testing even remotely fair??? I was asked a host of questions on the NCLEX placing me into the role of "Charge RN" and needing to make decisions regarding staff, policies and budgets. How is that relevant to my ASN degree? I'm not a nurse manager. I didn't get exposed to those educational resources.

I implore all of you nurses to advocate for this legal action. You are ADVOCATING for change. My comments here will no doubt be modified and that will be another legal matter I will contend with.

Respectfully,

A competent Paramedic but not competent enough to be an RN!

[Wuzzie]

17 minutes ago, emtpbruse said:

My comments here will no doubt be modified and that will be another legal matter I will contend with.

Threatening to sue the owners of All Nurses if they modify your comments is not going to win you much support here much less for any of your causes. This is a privately owned site. I can see that you are angry but you need to slow your roll. Using all caps is an extremely rude way to get your point across. The membership here has nothing to do with administering the NCLEX yet you are yelling at us. Take a moment and collect yourself and then come back and present your issue in a less confrontational way and perhaps your cause will gain some steam although I feel it's pretty safe to say that continuing to require a test for licensure is likely to be supported by the majority of professional nurses.

[guest1008832]

Wuzzie,

I'm sorry! I thought nurses were suppose to be advocates? I almost remember eating and regurgitating that statement all throughout school and clinical's. Did I fail to understand what advocacy means?

I was never implying that a test wasn't necessary, what I'm implying is the testing methodology. Since when do SATA questions demonstrate someone is competent enough to achieve a nursing license? OK, OK...so I can select 2 out of 3 correct answers. So I'm an incompetent and bad nursing student? I guess since some people claim to fail this test sometimes 5-times in a row and still go out in the world and practice medicine that's OK also, who cares how many times you fail or what it does to you as a person (emotionally).

I don't have a "threatening" demeanor, I have the will to support a cause because the system needs to change. It has gone on long enough. When I log into a site like this and someone here (who I read about) claims they want to leave nursing and are even "suicidal" because of nursing...THAT is a problem.

For anyone who turns their back on supporting a change to this system, I say this to you...SHAME ON YOU!

emtpbruse

[Wuzzie]

5 minutes ago, emtpbruse said:

I'm sorry! I thought nurses were suppose to be advocates?

Asking you to quit shouting at us is advocating for the membership here. Letting you know that if you threaten to sue people for modifying your posts will likely get you shut down is advocating for you. You may not feel you are acting in a threatening manner but your snark is not appreciated. Back the truck up and try to present your thoughts in a rational manner otherwise people are going to be disinclined to listen to you.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:34 AM, emtpbruse said:

Wuzzie,

I'm sorry! I thought nurses were suppose to be advocates? I almost remember eating and regurgitating that statement all throughout school and clinical's. Did I fail to understand what advocacy means?

I was never implying that a test wasn't necessary, what I'm implying is the testing methodology. Since when do SATA questions demonstrate someone is competent enough to achieve a nursing license? OK, OK...so I can select 2 out of 3 correct answers. So I'm an incompetent and bad nursing student? I guess since some people claim to fail this test sometimes 5-times in a row and still go out in the world and practice medicine that's OK also, who cares how many times you fail or what it does to you as a person (emotionally).

I don't have a "threatening" demeanor, I have the will to support a cause because the system needs to change. It has gone on long enough. When I log into a site like this and someone here (who I read about) claims they want to leave nursing and are even "suicidal" because of nursing...THAT is a problem.

For anyone who turns their back on supporting a change to this system, I say this to you...SHAME ON YOU!

emtpbruse

I'm not sure how you can sue for the NCLEX since the super majority passes rather easily. Deflecting the conversation to suicide is what Trump does and you don't want to do that!:) Are you doing well with the reviews? If you are, then fer sure you're not stupid but perhaps overcome with anxiety during the testing period. Just because you can do procedures as an Army EMT (without MD orders?) doesn't reflect how you will do on the NCLEX since nursing is more than a collection of tasks. Have you tried anxiety-reducing strategies while testing?

P.S. This lawsuit seems rather extreme for someone who has only taken the exam twice. 

[Hoosier_RN, MSN]

2 hours ago, emtpbruse said:

In Pennsylvania, we have RN programs consisting of diploma programs, Associate Degree Programs (ADN/ASN) and BSN programs. All of which you can complete PRIOR to sitting for the NCLEX. However, all of these program students sit for the SAME NCLEX test. Someone with a BSN is more at an advantage than someone with a ADN/ASN degree vs a diploma certificate. How is this form of NCLEX testing even remotely fair??? I was asked a host of questions on the NCLEX placing me into the role of "Charge RN" and needing to make decisions regarding staff, policies and budgets. How is that relevant to my ASN degree? I'm not a nurse manager. I didn't get exposed to those educational resources.

A competent Paramedic but not competent enough to be an RN!

No particular education level is any more prepared to pass the NCLEX, I'm not sure where you even got that thought. I know just as many BSNs who failed NCLEX as ASN/ADNs. In fact, probably more.

RN vs paramedic. Different disciplines. A whole 'nuther thread.

As @Wuzziestated, huffing and puffing and threatening usually doesn't go far in a profession such as nursing. Boards for licensure are to help ensure public safety at a basic level, not to make people feel bad or feel like failures

[llg, PhD, RN]

On 8/11/2020 at 11:34 AM, emtpbruse said:

I guess since some people claim to fail this test sometimes 5-times in a row and still go out in the world and practice medicine t

emtpbruse

Nurses do not practice medicine. The NCLEX has nothing to do with medicine - or EMT practice. It is about professional nursing practice and nothing else.

If you feel unprepared to do well on the NCLEX because you don't feel you have sufficient knowledge about being a Charge Nurse, etc., then you should study that sort of content before you take the test again. Now you know what your weak spot is. Apparently, all of your EMT experience did not prepare you for those aspects of the nursing role. In most areas of the country, even Associate Degree prepared nurses are expected to be the Charge Nurse sometimes and to have a basic knowledge of being a team leader, make staffing decisions, participate in policy development, etc.

Over 80% of all newly graduated nurses with an Associates Degree pass the NCLEX on their first attempt. They pass it by learning the nursing content -- and not relying on any past experience they may have in other disciplines. You seem like a bright enough guy. I'm sure you can pass the exam too if you just focus on opening yourself to learning new things -- and "letting go" of old knowledge from different fields to carry you through this new field.

I think there are a lot of poor quality schools out there that should be either closed or forced to upgrade. They take students' money and don't provide them with a good education. I am sorry that happened to you. Had you gone to a more traditional program that did a better job of teaching the nursing content, you might have been an RN by now.

[HiddencatBSN, BSN]

On 8/11/2020 at 10:58 AM, emtpbruse said:

Dear Londonflo,

I did receive the testing feedback from the NCSBN on my NCLEX failure performance. WOW!, it was stellar, I did worse than I did the first time...even after using the NCSBN's learning exams / 5-week study material. That was 5-weeks wasted!

Effective today, I filed notice to the NCSBN in Chicago, IL they have been issued a "Writ of Summons" pertaining to my efforts to bring a "Class Action" lawsuit against the testing methodology. ANY existing Graduate Nurse or existing Nurse who failed the NCLEX 2 or more times will be allowed to enter the action as a "Class Member" and receive compensation.

I'm no longer going to tolerate this behavior when we need nurses on the front lines. Nursing students who go through vigorous schooling following by peer precepting when they get hired. If your an unsafe nurse, THAT is the time to correct the actions while you are working with an experienced nurse. That way...YOU LEARN from your mistakes. I fail a test and learn nothing!

In Pennsylvania, we have RN programs consisting of diploma programs, Associate Degree Programs (ADN/ASN) and BSN programs. All of which you can complete PRIOR to sitting for the NCLEX. However, all of these program students sit for the SAME NCLEX test. Someone with a BSN is more at an advantage than someone with a ADN/ASN degree vs a diploma certificate. How is this form of NCLEX testing even remotely fair??? I was asked a host of questions on the NCLEX placing me into the role of "Charge RN" and needing to make decisions regarding staff, policies and budgets. How is that relevant to my ASN degree? I'm not a nurse manager. I didn't get exposed to those educational resources.

I implore all of you nurses to advocate for this legal action. You are ADVOCATING for change. My comments here will no doubt be modified and that will be another legal matter I will contend with.

Respectfully,

A competent Paramedic but not competent enough to be an RN!

And in Pennsylvania isn’t the first time pass rate for the NCLEX still in the 80s? I don’t know of any state that doesn’t have various levels of RN entry and we all sit for the same exam. Most of my RN experience was in Pennsylvania and I had managers who were all diploma or ASN prepared, maybe half of them had completed a bridge BSN program after licensure. BSN was never a requirement to be a charge RN at any facility I worked at.

I went to school with a few medics and they had to learn the same nursing process the rest of us did from scratch. I think it’s a background that really benefits a nurse especially in emergency nursing, and a lot of the skills are transferable, but it really is a different field.

I agree with previous sentiments that it sounds like you’ve identified your area of weakness on the NCLEX and if you want to test again you should focus on that area.

[guest1008832]

Hoosier RN

"Boards for licensure are to help ensure public safety at a basic level, not to make people feel bad or feel like failures".

I just took a handful of prilosec to swallow that statement. Why are nurses claiming to be suicidal yet along depressed? That was one of the topics Allnurses.com elected to address right? Depression and the nursing practice.

So when your entire career is banking on the passing of a single test so you can provide for your family, make ends meet, feel resolved after thousands of dollars of students loans you have to repay...but can't pass a manipulative test, how is a licensure suppose to not make people feel bad or like a failure. Do you even know what it was like to have to tell my peers, my former professors, my employer, my family and friends that I failed for the "second" time. Do you have any idea what that feels like?

Bruse

[guest1008832]

Wuzzie,

Thank you for the inquiries. I promise, I'm no Trump and I will be glad to see him go but this a topic for a different venue.

I have done extremely well using UWorld, mostly in the 80% area of testing. I require additional remediation here and there on medications because I'm not well versed to using so many in the pre-hosp. arena. Based on all the med questions, isn't that what a PDR is for? I feel like the NCLEX exam is requiring me to take a test for the entry level of Pharmacist! I'm not a Pharmacist. If I don't know a medication, that is what we do research for before administering the medication.

I have also used Saunders Comprehensive Review (8th ED.), Exam Cram for NCLEX Review followed by the 5-wk NCSBN study plan. I can't reiterate how the questions I was exposed to on the NCLEX had no reflection on all the studying and review.

I don't want to violate any particular rules or regulations but the NCLEX asked me about several medications (at least 5) that I recalled after the test. I went to my car, wrote them down and then went home to my resources. NONE...I mean NONE of those medications were even discussed or listed in any of the resources I utilized. How am I suppose to take a test when material isn't even covered on the exam? I'm just asking?

Bruse