Pregnancy Discrimination - Interview

Art_Vandelay · Sep 7, 2012

Not being mean here, being real. Why would an employer want to hire a pregnant girl, give them insurance, and then hold their job when they take FML? Per Diem work is what I'd go for.

No, you're being mean. (j/k). Yeah, I get it, it sucks for the employer. But the position IS per diem, so maybe they'll fall in like with me. And I still think the mentality is 1950ish in that women want to work but they want to have babies too. It's still about ME ME ME from whichever perspective.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · Sep 7, 2012

Perhaps, but it is what it is.

And inpatient is different to a degree, but to me it is the lack of forthrightness that is at issue, more than the pregnancy itself. You might be running into someone like me who finds it unacceptable. I didn't think my anecdote would be well received, but I did want you to consider the possibility that there could be unintended consequences secondary to failure to disclose information they may find pertinent. You are not obligated to of course, but from my point of view a pregnant woman won't always be pregnant, but a liar is always going to be untrustworthy. You don't want to be branded as such.

Art_Vandelay · Sep 7, 2012

I must say, your charm seems rather considerable. :) And personality/fit DOES matter...a lot actually.

Darn, there is no blushing emoticon! How about Thanksgiving instead...:hrnsmlys: I mean, I'm going to need off then. Just kidding! and thanks.

Art_Vandelay · Sep 7, 2012

Perhaps, but it is what it is.
And inpatient is different to a degree, but to me it is the lack of forthrightness that is at issue, more than the pregnancy itself. You might be running into someone like me who finds it unacceptable. I didn't think my anecdote would be well received, but I did want you to consider the possibility that there could be unintended consequences secondary to failure to disclose information they may find pertinent. You are not obligated to of course, but from my point of view a pregnant woman won't always be pregnant, but a liar is always going to be untrustworthy. You don't want to be branded as such.

No, I don't. Unfortunately, I also don't want my nursing skills to be a year in default by the time an employer would consider me sans pregnancy. But there is the BSN option in the meantime, which I am pursing. But, the program I chose has no clinical component so that doesn't help me there. If only hospital jobs weren't so competitive...you always have to maintain an edge.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Sep 7, 2012

So why is non disclosure viewed so heinously by employers? I view my work practices as ethically sound, and don't want to come across as "questionable" in any way. But, I REALLY want this job...so why does it make me the bad guy to hide it? I am fully capable to perform the per diem job asked of me IMHO.
p.s. thanks!

Managers need to plan ahead for the staffing holes your maternity leave will cause. If you fail to disclose being pregnant until the last minute, they have less time to plan to cover the staffing holes. It's not just about whether you can do the job right now. There's also the consideration that the new employee the manager just hired may be required to go on bed rest a month from now, too.

wooh, BSN, RN · Sep 7, 2012

I will say it again. You may be missing out on a fantastic nurse, just to avoid a two month pregnancy leave. The nurse you hire may not be pregnant, but may decide to start their family once they get hired. Or, you may hire someone with call off problems, or a secret drub abuse problem. We should all be ashamed that this is even an issue in 2012.

Or you may be missing out on a crappy nurse, and instead of the pregnant nurse, hire someone that will stay and work every weekend nightshift for the next 30 years.

It's a crapshoot no matter who you hire, managers do the best they can to figure out who will best work out. Sure, they may miss out on someone great with their "arbitrary" standards, but they're likely also weeding out some awful people.

Art_Vandelay · Sep 7, 2012

Or you may be missing out on a crappy nurse, and instead of the pregnant nurse, hire someone that will stay and work every weekend nightshift for the next 30 years.
It's a crapshoot no matter who you hire, managers do the best they can to figure out who will best work out. Sure, they may miss out on someone great with their "arbitrary" standards, but they're likely also weeding out some awful people.

LOL, who you callin' crappy, wooh? Indeed, NMs certainly hire "crappy" nurses too though. There were definitely nurses on the floor that did the minimal necessary to get the job done while offering no team work and called off frequently. They didn't weed those out.

Paws2people · Sep 7, 2012

The economy stinks right now... So if there are 2 nurses, both equally as qualified, odds are they will choose the non-pregnant applicant. It's unfortunate. The current position I recently was hired for had 700 applicants for the one position. I guess HR needs to narrow it down somehow, and being pregnant can be a factor in doing so

amoLucia · Sep 7, 2012

What are the state and federal laws on this? I only know of anti discrimination for race , religion county of origin, materal status, veteran status and gender. there may be others, i am not sure. the employer should look out for themselves just as employees should. we have a few pregnant staff members lately and some are annoying (not new with the pregnancy)Refusing all isos even things like mrsa, refusing heavy pts, complete care pts. well guess what all the pts are sometimes complete cares, dts, drunks , 350lbs,violent or psychotic 1:1s and some prisioners and other non friendly non walkie talkies. There often is not a 8month pregnant nurse friendly assignment and i dont want to hear it. last time one was livid she had an mr complete care pt and went on and on. she had the 3 walkie talkies on the floor. actually the easiest assignment. should someone get more pts because she is pregnant or should assignments be lighter and disregard what nurse had those pts the day before? i have seen the same resentment or more with those on light duty even when it is employer related, if not , caused. if i am in charge i do try to give the 7month+ nurses easier assignments if able to.

I haven't finished reading through all the posts on this thread yet, but... I find it coincidently interesting that another post somewhere for this date (or 9/6 ish) is from an 8 month pregnant nurse. She is upset because her mgt will not adjust her work schedule assignment for lighter duties because she is experiencing some NOT unusual discomfort r/t late pregnancy.

There's no employment light duty clause for pregnancy, but this is her expectation. And I have worked with many nurses who have expected similar special considerations to adjust the work schedules and assignments.. Sorry --- not a sympathetic one to complain to!! I get paid for the same duties as the pregnant ones, so if the time comes that the work environment is becoming too difficult, then it's time .... Don't even approach the subject of reverse discrimination that the males in the industry would have the right to raise!!! So major discontent becomes the norm for the unit.

So it's no small wonder that hiring personnel are leary about pregnant applicants!!! There are very real workplace negative issues, potentially present notwithstanding the applicant's past well-health and good intentions. We all know anything can occur during pregnancy. The reality is as much there as when a recruiter views an applicant who has limited language skills that portend possible communication difficulties with pts, other health providers and the publc, problematic documentation etc

It's a sad but real issue for recruiters to avoid discrimination, even unconsciously.

Art_Vandelay · Sep 7, 2012

Well, it seems there are problematic pregnant employees just as there are problematic non-pregnant employees. I can certainly think of former fellow non-pregnant nursing staff who would go "hiding" and other staff noticed and used to joke about it. It sad that prenancy is typecast as problematic when it really depends on the individual.

allnurses Guide · Sep 7, 2012

Don't worry, we want the problematic nonpregnant ones done away with too. No discrimination there.

BelgianRN · Sep 7, 2012

Since the 1950s we've come a long way in terms of condom use, birth control and birth planning as well. In the majority of cases having a child is a well balanced choice more than an accidental occurance or a consequence from lack of preventative measure. So I personally think that being pregnant and having a professional carreer can be combined but you need to plan this accordingly. Same way I fel that people shouldn't be having babies if you are not capable of caring for them emotionally, physically or financially.

I come from a country where pregnant women are basically off for months. Since I have no kids nor do I ever intend to have them I never really bothered looking up the exact rules surrounding pregnancy. So as I read this thread I delved into the rules and regulations and will give you two examples in the end.

We have different leaves for pregnant/delivered women:

Maternity leave:
- 15 weeks (minimum of 9 weeks postnatal) - Standard for everyone.
- +4 weeks - For having more than one baby at a time.
- +1 week - For being unable to work during your pregnancy due to medical reasons.
- up to +24 weeks - For having medical issues with the baby that requires hospital/LTC admission.
[*]Lactation leave:
- Up to the 5th month after the birth of the baby - If you are actively lactating (roughly 8 weeks added on top of the maternity leave).
- Only for professions with a medical risk factor like nursing.
[*]Parenting leave:
- 17 weeks for a fulltime employee.
- You can take these 17 week all at once or spread them so you can work less every week.
- Is valid up to the point where your children's age is 12.
- counts per child, so duplicates in twins.
[*]Medical Reasons
- The entire pregnancy duration one can be absent due to medical reasons.
- Up to a maximum of say 32 weeks.

So for a regular mother they are gone for: 15 + 8 + 17 weeks = 30 weeks.

For a twin bearing mom with medical issues prenatally from her 10th week of pregnancy with difficult twins in a NICU for 25 weeks this comes down to: 26 (prenatal) + 9 (standard postnatal) + 4 (for twins) + 1 (absent prenatal) + 24 (NICU issues) + 17 (twin #1) + 17 (twin #2) = 98 weeks. That's 1 year 10 months and a bit.

I'm not talking about the financing of all this leave because that's not just the employer. But if I was to hire someone that's pregnant I'm looking for a potential gap of anywhere between 30 and 98 weeks that I need to fill up. I wouldn't hire either if i had a ton of non pregnant people to choose from. Probably if I was an employer I'd just hire men. Preferably men that sign a document they'll never adopt, get someone pregnant, fall sick, or hurt themselves while sporting ^^.

While I hear from a lot of women that pregnancy and having children is wonderful, which is probably true. I do think there are quite a few women out there that plan their pregnancies very cunningly to coincide with being off all the nice periods and getting most benefit from all the different regulations surrounding pregnant women in my country. And I admit so far I haven't had one pregnant colleague that didn't exploit their pregnancy to get out of less popular tasks and assignments, so I'm very biassed. I'd like to stress I'm not against pregnancy but I consider it a choice more than a given these days.

Do I try to keep pregnancy in mind when handing out work assignments? I certainly do by not giving them isolated patients with e.g. CMV. But I won't give them the patients closest to the nursing desk so they can take breaks in between of walking, or giving patients that are light as a feather all the time.