Pornography in schools. Is this "grooming" our children as some angry parents believe?

[toomuchbaloney]

https://apnews.com/article/education-gender-identity-adf10ff5f169fae9c9af4d08a7b0c2bc

Quote

The use of such rhetoric, opponents of the new laws argue, underscores a nationwide push by conservatives to make education a political wedge issue by equating certain teaching materials and educators with Mediaography and even pedophilia. This latest trend is another volley in the country’s ongoing culture wars, during which conservative lawmakers also have opposed the teaching of “critical race theory” and proposed bills requiring schools to post all course materials online so parents can review them.

I think this is just another example of conservative Americans getting agitated by right wing rhetoric and propaganda. 

Here's a video compilation and represention of how emotional and aggressive these agitated people are. 

Here is a list of books under fire from conservatives. Does anyone know of any other compilation of those titles?

 https://docs.Google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1hTs_PB7KuTMBtNMESFEGuK-0abzhNxVv4tgpI5-iKe8/htmlview

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I couldn't watch the video past 1:20.  I was triggered but he heckling and boos the queer speakers received.  

I think younger students do need to be monitored by their libraries and parents and appropriate reading should be available.  

I think high school level kids can handle queer characters and sex in books.  When I was in high school I read sexually explicit books and violent books like The Godfather and other best sellers and my parents allowed it.  Perhaps "sexually explicit" books should be monitored and not allowed, but a book with people having sex should be okay for high schoolers.  60% of 12th graders claim to have had sex.  They know what it is.

 

[toomuchbaloney]

31 minutes ago, Tweety said:

I couldn't watch the video past 1:20.  I was triggered but he heckling and boos the queer speakers received.  

I think younger students do need to be monitored by their libraries and parents and appropriate reading should be available.  

I think high school level kids can handle queer characters and sex in books.  When I was in high school I read sexually explicit books and violent books like The Godfather and other best sellers and my parents allowed it.  Perhaps "sexually explicit" books should be monitored and not allowed, but a book with people having sex should be okay for high schoolers.  60% of 12th graders claim to have had sex.  They know what it is.

 

You should watch the end of the video... the closing remarks are outstanding and worth hearing. It is a very agitating video.  

[Beerman, BSN]

1 hour ago, Tweety said:

I couldn't watch the video past 1:20.  I was triggered but he heckling and boos the queer speakers received.  

I think younger students do need to be monitored by their libraries and parents and appropriate reading should be available.  

I think high school level kids can handle queer characters and sex in books.  When I was in high school I read sexually explicit books and violent books like The Godfather and other best sellers and my parents allowed it.  Perhaps "sexually explicit" books should be monitored and not allowed, but a book with people having sex should be okay for high schoolers.  60% of 12th graders claim to have had sex.  They know what it is.

 

I believe parents have the right to know what is going on in the classroom, and that includes what books are being used or are assigned.  

Being banned from the library I think is a different animal.  For one, it's hard for me to imagine why a book about Roberto Clemente or Sonia Sotomeyer would be on that list.  By the same token, there are other books that it's hard to imagine why a school would find it necessary to include in the library.

And, then there is the practical questions...how many kids are really that interested in reading any of them?  And, anyway, it's pretty easy to get any book you want, anywhere you want.

It seems both sides of this issue need to be better at picking their battles.

I watched the video.  It's missing a lot of context, like what books in what setting was this all about?  It seemed most of the shouting down and jeering happened when speakers tried to say it was the ones making issue of the books are doing so not because of the book but because they are anti-gay.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

It's TYT so it's very slanted and out of context.  Even so when one person introduced themselves as queer they got jeered.  Not sure why they wanted to introduce their gender and sexuality but in a mature and safe environment it might have gone un-noticed.

I think the LGBT community have a right to be concerned.  They are an extremely tiny market in the literary community but a large part of the banned books.  

I agree that parents have a right to know what books their kids are reading.  I also think in the world of advocacy for "parental rights and freedom" banning literature seems to take away from that right.  I get that some parents don't want their kids reading certain books.  Those very same parents probably found a way to read Playboy and want a better example for their kids (tongue in cheek).  

Quote

A new report from nonprofit group PEN America released during Banned Books Week found that more than 1,600 books were banned in over 5,000 schools over the last school year, and 41% of the banned books were targeted due to LGBTQ+ content.

PEN America noted that there is currently a concerted effort to find books with LGBTQ+ content and work to ban them. Jonathan Friedman, the director of free expression and education at PEN America, explained to NBC News that conservative groups often search for books with LGBTQ+ content on the internet and then add them to lists of books with inappropriate content to feign legitimate concern.

https://www.them.us/story/banned-books-lgbtq-2022

[Beerman, BSN]

11 minutes ago, Tweety said:

It's TYT so it's very slanted and out of context.  Even so when one person introduced themselves as queer they got jeered.  Not sure why they wanted to introduce their gender and sexuality but in a mature and safe environment it might have gone un-noticed.

I think the LGBT community have a right to be concerned.  They are an extremely tiny market in the literary community but a large part of the banned books.  

I agree that parents have a right to know what books their kids are reading.  I also think in the world of advocacy for "parental rights and freedom" banning literature seems to take away from that right.  I get that some parents don't want their kids reading certain books.  Those very same parents probably found a way to read Playboy and want a better example for their kids (tongue in cheek).  

https://www.them.us/story/banned-books-lgbtq-2022

I watched again, and she was pretty far into her intro, although not finished, when the jeering, and/or maybe cheering started.  And one agitated guy right behind her seemed fine with her, until all of a sudden he wasn't.  So, who knows what all was going on in the room.

Either way, you make some good points that I can't disagree with.

[Weetywill]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:19 AM, Tweety said:

It's TYT so it's very slanted and out of context.  Even so when one person introduced themselves as queer they got jeered.  Not sure why they wanted to introduce their gender and sexuality but in a mature and safe environment it might have gone un-noticed.

I think the LGBT community have a right to be concerned.  They are an extremely tiny market in the literary community but a large part of the banned books.  

I agree that parents have a right to know what books their kids are reading.  I also think in the world of advocacy for "parental rights and freedom" banning literature seems to take away from that right.  I get that some parents don't want their kids reading certain books.  Those very same parents probably found a way to read Playboy and want a better example for their kids (tongue in cheek).  

https://www.them.us/story/banned-books-lgbtq-2022

Thank you for your respectful well thought out post. I am always interested in reading them. 

I do not know the context behind that video but no one should be geered or booed at for any reason. 

I think there is a stark contrast between banning literature and restricting access to certain types of books. I find some less than genuine people compare parents not wanting certain types of books in schools with the infamous book burning of the past. This is a false equivalent.  (Not saying thats what you said)

No one says to remove these books completely out of circulation.Or a very few instances. I'm sure anyone can find at least 1 wako to refute that. Again  completely removing a book from circulation is different than removing a book from the access of children in a place where children spend many hours per week. 

I agree. Kids will find Media no matter what. However a school isn't a place to have to be exposed to it. Just because we got a hold of our parent's Playboys, doesn't mean they should be have been available in the school libraries. 

The limited amount of LGBTQ authors in the community is something I had not considered. This is a good point. However I believe and I think you do to, that LBGTQ authors can write more books without graphic sexual content. They are capable of many different types of literature.  Also, they can write various different themes that are school appropriate.  

For me it's simple, k to 10, no graphic images or depictions of sexual acts including violence with or without sex. Educational illustrations are appropriate.  

This doesn't mean no talking about the act of sex at all, just not how it looked, felt, tasted, size, how big or wet the genitals are etc. "Vanilla sex", not "supreme rocky road cream cheese with extra topping". I think you get the point. 

There's more to it but that's what I have time for right now. 

 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

11 minutes ago, Weetywill said:

The limited amount of LGBTQ authors in the community is something I had not considered. This is a good point. However I believe and I think you do to, that LBGTQ authors can write more books without graphic sexual content. They are capable of many different types of literature.  Also, they can write various different themes that are school appropriate.  

Queer writers aren't writing Mediaography for children. 

I agree that sexually explicit books by any writer isn't appropriate for certain ages.  I think there are some books that are available that have explicit sex and they of course should not be made available to certain age groups.  

I'm talking about a book like "Heather Has Two Mommies" which has no Mediaography but portrays a family that's different.  Or "George" that talks about a female to male transgendered person coming to terms with his gender identity.  There's plenty of books out there that are not Mediaography that get banned.  People don't want any queer content because it's "grooming" or “designed to pollute the morals of its readers” and are “a deliberate attempt to indoctrinate young children.”  I read an article that in 2020 eight of the top ten most challenged books had LGBT content.  In 2021 is was 5 out of the top ten.  Considering LGBT writers aren't 80% or 50% of the writers of the books in libraries one can't deny they are targeted for their content.

 

[Weetywill]

4 hours ago, Tweety said:

Queer writers aren't writing Mediaography for children. 

I agree that sexually explicit books by any writer isn't appropriate for certain ages.  I think there are some books that are available that have explicit sex and they of course should not be made available to certain age groups.  

I'm talking about a book like "Heather Has Two Mommies" which has no Mediaography but portrays a family that's different.  Or "George" that talks about a female to male transgendered person coming to terms with his gender identity.  There's plenty of books out there that are not Mediaography that get banned.  People don't want any queer content because it's "grooming" or “designed to pollute the morals of its readers” and are “a deliberate attempt to indoctrinate young children.”  I read an article that in 2020 eight of the top ten most challenged books had LGBT content.  In 2021 is was 5 out of the top ten.  Considering LGBT writers aren't 80% or 50% of the writers of the books in libraries one can't deny they are targeted for their content.

 

Those books like "Heather has two mommy's " are perfectly acceptable. As far as the others you mentioned that you say were targeted because of LGBTQ content, I would have to know what they are andvwhat was found to be innapropriate in them.. I imagine there is some parents that do not wish for their children to read anything like that. They tend to be the obvious bigoted knobs.  As ignorant as this is, I think parents do have the choice in what their children consume. 

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

6 hours ago, Weetywill said:

 As ignorant as this is, I think parents do have the choice in what their children consume. 

It's not ignorant because I feel the same way.  

I think parents should have the choice in what their children consume but not by banning books from the parents who have no problem with their children reading about a child with two dads.  Taking away someone else's choice because you don't choose it is not right.

[toomuchbaloney]

13 hours ago, Weetywill said:

Thank you for your respectful well thought out post. I am always interested in reading them. 

I do not know the context behind that video but no one should be geered or booed at for any reason. 

I think there is a stark contrast between banning literature and restricting access to certain types of books. I find some less than genuine people compare parents not wanting certain types of books in schools with the infamous book burning of the past. This is a false equivalent.  (Not saying thats what you said)

No one says to remove these books completely out of circulation.Or a very few instances. I'm sure anyone can find at least 1 wako to refute that. Again  completely removing a book from circulation is different than removing a book from the access of children in a place where children spend many hours per week. 

I agree. Kids will find Media no matter what. However a school isn't a place to have to be exposed to it. Just because we got a hold of our parent's Playboys, doesn't mean they should be have been available in the school libraries. 

The limited amount of LGBTQ authors in the community is something I had not considered. This is a good point. However I believe and I think you do to, that LBGTQ authors can write more books without graphic sexual content. They are capable of many different types of literature.  Also, they can write various different themes that are school appropriate.  

For me it's simple, k to 10, no graphic images or depictions of sexual acts including violence with or without sex. Educational illustrations are appropriate.  

This doesn't mean no talking about the act of sex at all, just not how it looked, felt, tasted, size, how big or wet the genitals are etc. "Vanilla sex", not "supreme rocky road cream cheese with extra topping". I think you get the point. 

There's more to it but that's what I have time for right now. 

 

I provided a list of books that conservative parents want out of libraries, there is no Media in the compilation. Non-hetero authors write books about first kisses and love and fear and all kinds of experiences that teens and young people want to read about. Maybe these parents are trying not to have difficult discussions with their kids.

My family in the Dearborn area are alarmed at how animated and aggressive the conservative members of the community have been over the last year.  Do you think that a community feels safe when conservative members behave in such a hostile manner during a public meeting where ideas and opinions are supposed to be shared? 

 

 

[Weetywill]

6 hours ago, Tweety said:

It's not ignorant because I feel the same way.  

I think parents should have the choice in what their children consume but not by banning books from the parents who have no problem with their children reading about a child with two dads.  Taking away someone else's choice because you don't choose it is not right.

I do not think this is what you are saying but, I do not think it should be any adults choice,  parent or not, to expose children to Mediaographic/sexually descriptive or violent literature, ever. 

Not wanting children to access illicit material or even material that's not illicit isn't the same as banning books. 

I think stories about same sex parents are great, some people do not. Just as some parents think eating at the table is a must and other parents don't care. However teaching children to openly hate or discriminate against same sex parents or their children is not acceptable either.